Who holds the position of Lord Brahma and other major Demigods?

Neelam sharma, 30th January 2013

Hare krsna.

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva and srimati Gurumata.
All glories to srila Prabhupada.

Here is a question : Who holds the position of Lord Brahma and other major Demigods?…..
is the position attained by devotee from the spiritual world? , if yes then why are they subject to birth,death,old age and diseases

your servant
Neelam
Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 05th February 2013

Hare Krishna Neelam Mataji,

Please kindly accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, all entities originally situated in the spiritual world come to the material world out of the desire to enjoy separately from Krishna, but some realize very quickly that material world is troublesome, and some don’t realize even after trillions of years due to stubbornness. Our Lord Brahma in our Universe is the first link in the Sampradaya, he is a devotee, he is our Acharya, our spiritual master, but not all are like him.

Anyone who realizes, they are on the way back home to Godhead. Anyone who does not realize, they are going up and down.

Anyone who desires to enjoy separately from Krishna is subject to birth, death, old age, and disease.

BUT, there is another category of persons who are in the material world due to Krishna’s desire. These are Krishna’s eternal associates, who come with Krishna wherever He goes, and another class are the devotees who are instructed by Krishna to go to material world and please bring back the lost souls, these are our spiritual masters. So, even though our spiritual masters are apparently subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease, actually they are taking all this trouble just for our sake, because they have no desire to enjoy separately from Krishna.

That is why, Vaishnavas are praised as “patitaanaam paavanebhyo” or “uplifters of the fallen conditioned souls” and “krpa sindhu” or “ocean of mercy”. Even though birth, death, old age, and disease are very unpleasant, our of love for Krishna, and our of love for the jivas who are part-and-parcel of Krishna, these souls come here to material world.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
Neelam sharma, 08th February 2013

Hare krsna Mahabhagavat Prabhu. Pls kindly accept my humble obeisances.   Thankyou for the answer but i had one more question that the Lord Brahma is a jiva i.e. One of the jiva in the spiritual world who is qualified is given the position of the Brahma and if there is no jiva who is qualified for this position then Lord Vishnu himself plays the role of Brahma. And if Lord Vishnu the supreme takes the
position of Lord Brahma then how He is subjected to birth,death,oldage and disease?

2nd question is what about Lord Shiva? who holds the position of Lord Shiva as He is not a jiva tattva. Pls correct me if I am wrong.

your servant,
Neelam
Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 8th February 2013

Hare Krishna Neelam Mataji,

Thank you.

Where did you read/hear that “One of the jiva in the spiritual world who is qualified is given the position of the Brahma”? Please give us more context to be able to understand and discuss better.

Material birth and death apply to jivas only. If Lord Himself plays the role of Brahma then obviously there is no question of birth or death, “sambhavamy atma mayaya” Krishna is not born, He appears according to His own will. But this is getting too theoretical… are we in a universe where Lord has expanded as Brahma? No, we are in a universe where our Brahma deva is a jiva. Do we really need to discuss for our spiritual success what is happening in other universes and at other times when so-and-so-special-cases happen? Srila Prabhupada used to say “so now you qualify yourself to see Krishna face-to-face” and if you still have all these questions when you are pure devotee and you are seeing Krishna face-to-face, then you can ask Him directly. 🙂

We are small, tiny, insignificant, and our job is to go back to serving Krishna 100%. But we may think we are something big big, actually we are weak little insignificant rebellious nonsense. I need to internalize that. Then the questioning becomes “My Dear Sri Guru, how may I serve you?”

About Lord Shiva, we do know that there are 2 main categories of Shiva. There is Sadashiva also called Shambhu, who is the glance of Mahavishnu when the Lord impregnates the living entities into the womb of material nature. Then the other Shiva (and the Rudras) are born of Lord Brahma within this universe.

A universe is created when Maha  Vishnu exhales, and destroyed when Maha Vishnu inhales. It can be understood that Sadashiva is a plenary expansion of Krishna. The specific Shiva/Rudra who is in every universe and who destroys the universe by Tandava Nritya, the dance of destruction, also merges back into the body of Maha Vishnu when the Universe is un-manifested when Maha Vishnu starts to breathe in.

Neelam Mataji, please immediately or as soon as possible get a full set of Srimad Bhagavatam all 12 Cantos from any source that distributes BBT books, and begin your study now. Until then, you can begin your study online every day study, http://www.vedabase.net/sb/

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
Neelam sharma, 08th February 2013

Hare Krishna Mahabhagavat Prabhu.

Please accept my humble obeisances. Thankyou for giving more understanding .

Actually before forwarding this question to you I discussed it with my friend who after asking the same to some senior devotee replied me as follows: “usually the Demigods are jivas , same for Lord Brahma. Lord shiva is not a jiva. He is a special tattva…above jiva.  Sometimes Lord Vishnu may take the position of Brahma if a qualified soul is not available. It is not
necessary that they are from the spiritual world unless they have come for some special services. In which case they never suffer.

It is said that initally everyone came from the spiritual world to experiment with this world. Once we practice spiritual life in this world then the benefit is not lost. If we fail to achieve perfection
in this life. We get a chance to improve in the next. …the credit is there.. ”

but I didn’t understand it clearly there remains some doubts in mind therefore i asked to you.

your servent
Neelam
Mahabhagavat Das SDA 11th Feb 2013

Hare Krishna Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, you heard correctly that Lord Shiva is not a jiva. He is “shiva tattva”. Yes, you heard correctly that Lord Vishnu may take the post of Lord Brahma if a qualified soul is not available. But the key thing to note is that the “qualified soul” referred to here in this context is from the material pool, not the spiritual world. The qualification, for anyone interested in being qualified for the post of Lord Brahma, is to pass 100 consecutive lifetimes without committing a single sinful action. But it is not a mindless mechanical system, Krishna may not choose a person even if they have the sufficient condition. The necessary condition is Krishna’s approval.

Re how is it possible that soul from spiritual world comes to material world, that is a separate matter answered by Srila Gurudeva so many times that free will and infinite number of souls with infinitesimal probability that someone will misuse their free will, equals to infinite number of souls who come to material world, but once bitten twice shy, so once these souls wake up from the nightmare, they will never go back there again. So yes, a person in spiritual world who desires to enjoy separately from Krishna, inspite of Krishna’s loving guidance, is impure, even if that person starts out as Brahma. So surely some fortunate Brahmas can realize this within one lifetime, and some others can take a little longer to surrender. The time scales are just beyond my comprehension, to be honest. Beyond this, I would be speculating, and I do not wish to speculate.

Have you now understood clearly? Really, the only way to understand 100% clearly some things is to become a pure devotee and then everything will be revealed… the example is that a teacher may know advanced calculus in mathematics, but if student is not capable of understanding because they need preparation in basic algebra and basic trigonometry, then student first has to learn those things before attempting calculus… this does not mean that the teacher does not know how to teach, but it means that some basic preparation is needed.

So in this way, Srila Prabhupada has given all the knowledge in his books, and Srila Gurudeva writes that in his daily emails and lectures, but I understand to the extent I am capable of understanding. Anyway, in due course of time, whatever I need to know would be revealed to me.

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
Neelam sharma, 11th February 2013

Hare Krishna Mahabhagavat Prabhu.

Please kindly accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to srila gurudeva and srimati gurumata.
All glories to srila Prabhupada.

Thankyou Prabhu for answers, now my doubts are clear.
Your answers really helps me a lot to understand any subject matter.

your servant,
Neelam
Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 13th February 2013

More transcendental nectar from His Grace Sriman Jagannatha Prabhu…

———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Jagannatha Dasa

Hare Krishna dear prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

In his purport to Srimad-Bhagavatamam 1.3.5, Srila Prabhupada discusses this matter:

“Lord Vishnu is nondifferent from the Personality of Godhead. Lord Siva is in the marginal position between the Personality of Godhead and the living entities, or jivas. Brahma is always a jiva-tattva. The highest pious living being, or the greatest devotee of the Lord, is empowered with the potency of the Lord for creation, and he is called Brahmä. His power is like the power of the sun reflected in valuable stones and jewels. When there is no such living being to take charge of the post of Brahma, the Lord Himself becomes a Brahma and takes charge of the post.”

And later in the same chapter 1.3.12, the basic principle of the Lord taking over any position needed is given:

“The administrative posts occupied by the demigods for maintaining the regulations of the material world are offered to the highly elevated pious living beings. When there is a scarcity of such pious living beings, the Lord incarnates Himself as Brahma, Prajapati, Indra, etc., and takes up the charge. During the period of Svayambhuva Manu (the present period is of Vaivasvata Manu) there was no suitable living being who could occupy the post of Indra, the King of the Indraloka (heaven) planet. The Lord Himself at that time became Indra. Assisted by His own sons like Yama and other demigods, Lord Yajna ruled the administration of the universal affairs.”

The same point is mentioned in the purport to 4.4.16, 4.8.6 (Where Lord Brahma is even referred to as a plenary expansion!)

Also there are cases where the Lord Brahma of a particular universe is not a devotee. (cf. SB. 11.3.12 purport)  But our universe is governed by a topmost pure devotee as Lord Brahma, who is our Sampradaya Acarya.

I mention this because I have already heard it; “vox siksa guru” works for me too. 🙂

I hope it is useful.

your servant,
Jagannatha dasa

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