What is difference between Karmi and Karma Yogi?

Bhakta Sunil, 22nd November 2013

Hare Krishna everyone!

Please accept my humble obeisances
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

Please tell what is the difference between karmi and karmayogi?

Regards,
Sunil

Shreyas, 22nd November 2013

Hare Krishna to all the devotees,
Dandavat Pranam!
Jaya Srila Gurudev!

This is my understanding:

Karmi is one who acts for his own sense gratification. One who is attached to the results

Karma yogi is one who acts with detachment to the results. This is the first step to the ladder of yoga which leads to Bhakti Yoga, the ultimate goal.

However Bhakta is one who acts for gratifying the senses of the Lord. This is Bhakti yoga, perfection of Karma yoga. Karma yoga as the ultimate. The actual destination.

I wish to be corrected if my understanding is incorrect.

your servant.

Hare Krishna 🙂
Shreyas

Jagannatha dasa, 23rd November 2013

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Karma is the execution of activites recommended in the sastra as pious.  The result of such action is pious reactions which can lead one to higher planets in this material world for a superior standard of material enjoyment.  If one neglects to act according to sastric injunctions and instead acts whimsically, that is known as vikarma, and it results in sinful reactions which can drive one down to lower births to experience severe restriction of enjoyment.

Akarma, or bhakti is when one engages in devotional service of the Lord.

When that devotional service is performed with ones activites directly, like walking to the temple, cooking for the Lord, embracing the devotees, or indirectly by offering the money one earns to Krishna for example, that manifestation of bhakti is called karma-yoga, or activity linking one to Krishna.  It is akarma.

Similarly when one who is eager to please Krishna, and therefore studies sastra to know what Krishna wants, under the guidance of the Lord’s devotees, such engagement of the intelligence in Krishna’s service is called jnana-yoga.  It is also bhakti, or akarma.  The result of akarma is that one’s pious and sinful reactions, everything binding us to this material world, are all destroyed (karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti bhajam), and one transcends repeated birth and death by going back to home, back to Godhead.

I hope it’s clear.

your servant,
Jagannatha Dasa Brahmacari

Shreyas, 23rd November 2013

Hare Krishna Prabhuji.

It is very clear now. Thank you for providing a nice explanation including jnana yoga as well and again making realize that as akarma Prabhuji.

your servant

Hare Krishna
Gusti Nyoman Ambara, 23rd November 2013

Hare Krishna Prabhuji

Please accept my humble obeisances,
All glories to Srila Gurudeva and Srimati Gurumataji,
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you very much for sharing this clear explanation. Please also kindly enlighten me, what is raja-yoga (in relationship with Krishna consciousness)? Thank you.

your insignificant servant
Gusti Nyoman Ambara
Bhakta Sunil, 24th November 2013

Hare Krishna everyone!

Thank you very much Shreyas ji and Jagannatha Prabhu ji for reply to question

I was very pleased to read your replies and my confusion got cleared

Regards,
Sunil

Rathin Mandal, 26th November 2013

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeisances,
All glories to Your Lotus Feet and Srimati Gurumataji,

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Can we say that a karma yogi is in higher position then a jnana yogi and dhyana yogi.
I am taking verse “BG 12.12: If you cannot take to this practice, then engage yourself in the cultivation of knowledge. Better than knowledge, however, is meditation, and better than meditation is renunciation of the fruits of action, for by such renunciation one can attain peace of mind.”

Whatever time I have spend with devotees, all I can understand the ‘renunciation of the fruits of action’ is very difficult. Until one is in knowledge of Supreme Personality of Godhead Sri Krishna and one is not engrossed in thougths of Sri Krishna. He cannot give up the results of his work neither in tangible form nor in intangible form.

your Servant
Rathin

Shreyas, 26th February 2014

Hare Krsna!

That’s a good question. But what I understood was that jnana yogi is below dhyana yogi. [Dhyana yogi should be those in astanga yoga,meditation ]. Jnana yogi must lead to Brahman realization and Dhyana yoga must lead to Paramatma realization.

Coming back to your question:
Karma yogi however is below jnana yogi. “Renunciation of the fruits of action”, shouldn’t that be above a karma-yogi? Because karma yogi means that one is attached to either the fruits or the work (I am also understanding it currently). So meditation surely is above renunciation of the fruits of action (karma yoga)

The following should also help us from the Bhagavad Gita 6.46 purport:

The culmination of all kinds of yoga practices lies in bhakti yoga. All other yogas are but means to come to the point of bhakti in bhakti-yoga. Yoga actually means bhakti-yoga; all other yogas are progressions toward the destination of bhakti-yoga. From the beginning of karma-yoga to the end of bhakti-yoga is a long way to self-realization. Karma-yoga, without fruitive results, is the beginning of this path. When karma-yoga increases in knowledge and renunciation, the stage is called jñāna-yoga. When jñāna-yoga increases in meditation on the Supersoul by different physical processes, and the mind is on Him, it is called aṣṭāṅga-yoga. And when one surpasses the aṣṭāṅga-yoga and comes to the point of the Supreme Personality of Godhead Kṛṣṇa, it is calledbhakti-yoga, the culmination. Factually, bhakti-yoga is the ultimate goal, but to analyze bhakti-yoga minutely one has to understand these other yogas. The yogī who is progressive is therefore on the true path of eternal good fortune. One who sticks to a particular point and does not make further progress is called by that particular name:karma-yogī, jñāna-yogī or dhyāna-yogī, rāja-yogī, haṭha-yogī, etc. If one is fortunate enough to come to the point of bhakti-yoga, it is to be understood that he has surpassed all other yogas. Therefore, to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is the highest stage of yoga, just as, when we speak of Himālayan, we refer to the world’s highest mountains, of which the highest peak, Mount Everest, is considered to be the culmination.

So Rathin prabhu, karma yoga has to be below jnana yoga according to the purport. Awaiting for more enlightenment on this from others 🙂

your servant

Shreyas

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Dealing with Doubt

Jessica M, 05th November 2012

What should one do when they begin to experience doubts while on the path to Krishna consciousness?
I have been chanting for five months now and reading the Gita As It Is as well. I don’t know any devotees in my area though and have a lot of curiosity and begin to find myself reading material that endorses a more impersonalistic viewpoint from which I first came from before learning about and accepting Krishna consciousness. I feel a bit torn…At first I felt so convicted, while chanting, and now I’m doubting things.
I would love to feel that sense of conviction, faith, again. Any advice?

Thank you. Hare Krishna!

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 05th November 2012

Jessica,

Hare Krishna!

Thank you so much for writing in!

We welcome encouragement and support for Jessica from the global community here! Please don’t let her think that she is all alone on this path of Bhakti. This community is especially for those who live far from association of devotees, but of course, anyone who is genuinely desirous of spiritual advancement can benefit from this.

What you are going through is natural. I also came from a phase in life where impersonalistic philosophy dominated. As long as we are not fixed up in devotional service, this comes back again and again. It is a very seductive philosophy, because it encourages the material mind to remain as it is today, the undisputed master of the soul.

Whenever we think about something, one pragmatic thing to do is to assess who is to gain from a course of action. For example politicians push projects where they or their close circle will gain… actors promote goods which increase their own wealth, and so on, the world is full of such examples.

Impersonalistic philosophy does not have any genuine element of surrender to God… so that means the mind remains the master – the mind chooses what to do and what not to do, the mind disguises actions and thoughts and words as “realizations from the impersonal oneness”, but if we see carefully it is just rantings of the mind.

You should ask your doubts, specific individual doubts, the questions should be asked submissively so that those who have the knowledge are inclined and encouraged and pleased to share with you. When you get the answers, do your best to act on them. If you don’t act on the answers received, then they will remain mere theories.

Bhakti Yoga is very very personal, and it is experiential… what is involved for an experience to occur? Some effort! 🙂

So, why don’t you wholeheartedly participate in the activities of this group – this question is surely a start!

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das

Virendra Trivedi, 06th November 2012

Dear Jessica,

Hare Krsna.

I asked similar question many years back to a senior devotee in a public forum and he gravely replied: “If you have doubt then come out challenging; willing to be defeated by authoritative reference and ready to be convinced by logical reasoning. This doubting phase is a dangerous situation. Don’t you know what Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita? Samsayatma vinashyati: The doubting soul is ruined. So don’t delay it. Act fast.”

So that is all I can advice you.

But here is something more I can tell you from my personal experience: I acted on his advice and I was saved from being ruined. To be defeated or corrected by devotees is also a very very good fortune which most people in this world do not have.

Just expose your doubts in this transcendental e-association of devotees as HG Mahabhagavat prabhu has suggested and see them replaced with your previous sense of conviction and faith once again. Participate in the association of devotees more often and their love will not let you feel torn anymore. You will certainly keep going higher and higher in spiritual life 🙂

Sincerely,
Virendra

Rahul Mangla, 06th November 2012

Hare Krishna,

Welcome to this wonderful group of devotees Jessica mataji. Please share your doubts in this group and I am sure your lost conviction and faith will return.

your servant,
Rahul

Rupa Manjari devi dasi, 06th November 2012

Hare Krishna

Dear Jessica

Please accept my humble obeisances,
All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!
All glories to Srila Prahbupada!

Doubts are natural on this process of devotional service and are nothing to be ashamed of.  When we first come to Krsna consciousness there is some faith called Sraddha, due to the association of some devotees or the holy named that incites are to take up the process, then there is a long process before we get to
nistha (firm unflinching faith).  We first have to go through the stage of sadhu sanga (associating with the devotees) bajana kriya, (we start taking up the process, taking shelter of a bona fide spiritual master), and the long desert of anartha avritti, the clearing of the unwanted things within the heart).  So during this stage doubts are natural, and clearing these doubts by making humble inquiries are all about  the process.

This Krishna conciousness process does not require blind – faith, in fact blind fact is actually discouraged, that is why the faith you see in advanced devotees are strong, it is based on realization through pratical experience. But I assure you they also had to go through the stage which we all are going through, the doubting stage. Even my beloved Spiritual master his Grace Srimad Sankarshana das Adhikari often speaks of the time he first came to Krsna consciousness – he was also influenced by the impersonal Mayavadi philosophy, and was reluctant at first to surrender to his now beloved Spirtual master  His divine grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

But through association, he especially mentions the association Visnujana Swami his faith increased to the stage he had firm faith in Srila Prahbupada and now look at him now!  Complete faith, no doubts to the point his only desire is to serve Srila Praahbupada, by bringing and guiding everyone to Krsna consciousness.  Every minute, every second, he is engaged in answering e-mails,  because his only desire is to clear up the doubts of all those who inquire from him so they can too progess and experience the sublime existence of being pure Krsna conscious.

Thus my spiritual master is constantly encouraging me to bring all my doubts to him.  Sometimes I brings my doubts up with other devotees  other devotees, and other times to my spiritual master. My spiritual master has a wondeful way of eradicating my doubts immediately but  some times it takes time, and it comes down to “lets just continue this process and then wait for Krsna to revealed the answers because this process is so potent and real, and tangible, and though sometimes the mind may decieve you to think otherwise, once someone begins they develop a higher taste, and so once they begin they can never fully go back to there original mindset, in other words, they  can not actually fully enter material existence again.  Many times I felt like running back to my christian ways going back to church, because of some aspects I could not yet understand, but it would take me only one hour in the church to realize they were missing the missing link which Krsna Consciousness has.  I see proof of this all the time when I am distributing books or prasadam on the street.  I meet many people who
have taken up the process before me, and for some reason or other, they stop, but the faith doesn’t go. They are so convinced of the authenticisty of Krsna consciousness, they still read Bhagavad-gita, or at least revere it, and tell others about Krsna consciousness, in contrast to those who leave other systems of religious practice which is based on blind faith,  often become athiests.

Personally I dabled a little bit in the impersonal philosphy, and my first doubt was, “This world is real but  temporary “I was convinced it was unreal, but inquires eradicated that doubt.  But the strongest doubts I had to deal with was my christian conditioning.  And with Krsna consciousness there is a lot of doubts that can come if you are from Christian background  the first of course being the deity form of the Lord which to a condition Christian is “idol worship”, and of course Krsna lets Maya test you a bit, to see where you go for shelter, whether you take shelter of your mind, or his devotees.  On this point though I inquired and I could therotically understand the post box anology, (as you send a letter through the post box, the Lord allows us to worship him through his  authorised diety form, it  is the Lord’s mercy because he appears to us in material form, because our eyes to not have the spiritual vision to see him),  but still some doubt was lingering but then one day nine months after I started taking up the process Krsna did something wonderful.  One of the devotees in my community was going to India and wanted me to take care of her Radha Krsna dieties.  She asked me to do arti everyday for them, offer, flower, ghee lamp and insense and of course offering of food.  They at first appeared just like statues but I stared doing arti for them and offerings, and by the end of the month I could actually realize the mercy of Krsna through his diety.  Through this intimate service I could experience a attraction for Radha and Krsna devoloping and so felt reciporaction from them.

The process of Krsna consciousness can sometimes be diffcult to understand intellectually but without a doubt if you give it some time you will understand it practically through experience, as Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita 9.2

raja-vidya raja-ghuyam
pavitram idam uttamam
pratyaksavagamam dharmyam
su–sukham kartum avayayam

“This knowledge is the king of education, the most secret of all secrets.  It is the purest knowledge, and because it gives direct perception of the self by realization, it is the perfection of religion.  It is everlasting, and it
is joyfully performed.”

So I wish to encourage you Jessica, we have all been there and are still there to various degrees, but if you inquire from devotees in this forum, and inquire from senior devotees.  I especially reccommend to humbly inquire from pure devotee becasue they can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.  BG 4.34, “Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master.  Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him.  The self-realized souls can  impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.”  So I especially enccourage you to bring you doubts to His Grace Srimad Sankarshan das Adhikari, with which you are already his student on his e- course.

You can e-mail him at sda@backtohome.com and I can guarantee he will be delighted to answer you inquiries.  Of course we are also happy to answer your inquiries to the best of our abilities.  Many of my doubts were cleared up just through inquring from devottees in my community, and a lot of mine are getting cleared up through this forum.
Some through direct inquiry and others through the inquiries of others.  And finally just keep with the process, eventually, everything will become revealed,

BG 10.10

tesam satata-yuktanam
bhajatam priti-purvakam
dadmi buddhi-yogam tam
yena mam upayanti ti

“To all those who are constantly devoted to serving me with love I give the understanding by which they can come to me.”

your servant
Rupa Manjari devi dasi

Shobha, 07th November 2012

Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obeisances,
All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!
All glories to Srila Prahbupada!

Very nice answer. Thank you for sharing your realization.

your humble servant,
Shobha

Hemanga Das, 08th November 2012

Hare Krishna Devotees,

Please kindly accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Gurudeva
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

It’s so enlivening to read devotee emails who are always up to guide others in spiritual path. Thank you Rupa Manjari Devi Dasi Mataji for sharing your experience.
This present Karthik month is like a Mega Sale.Any effort to chant more rounds or read Srila Prabhupada books will definitely help in spiritual advancement.Let’s all utilize this wonderful opportunity.

your servant,
Hemanth

Rahul Mangla, 10th November 2012

Hare Krishna to all devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances!
All glories to Srila Gurudev & Srimati Gurumata.
All glories to Srila Prabhupad.

Please find below link which focuses on the detrimental effects of doubt in the path of devotion.

http://archive.org/stream/SriKrishnaKathamritaBinduIssue288/bindu288#page/n0/mode/2up

Hare Krishna,

your servant,
Rahul

Tirtharaja Dasa, 15th November 2012

Hare Krishna Jessicca,

When one starts experiencing doubts, that is a sign of making spiritual progress for the faith we have on Krishna is not blind faith but is faith with a purpose that is backed by Shastra (Krishnas own words or descriptions of
Krishna and the like) and emulated by great saintly personalities down the ions of time.

There is a very nice book on this matter and I advise that if you can gret a copy then get a copy immediately for it deals with this matter of doubt precisely. Conclusively we have to practically read all of Srila Prabhpuadas books but for starters this is a good starting point. The book is entitled Obstacles on the Path of Devotional Service by Srila Satsvarupa dasa Gosvami.

Just to give you a test, He writes quoting from Bhagavad-gita (7.27 purport) p. 2 “…Due to desire and hte, the ignorant person wants to come one with the supreme Lord (impersonalism) and envies Krishna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead” One form this rebellion takes is doubts towards the teachings of the revealed scriptures and on the same page…Ignorant and faithless persons who doubt the revealed scriptures do not attain God consciousness; they fall down. For the doubting soul there is happiness neither in this life nor the next..”. further, “…The doubts that have arisen in your heart because of ignorance should be slashed with the weapon of knowledge. Armed with yoga, arise and fight.” and He concludes, … Meditation on these verses has been helpful in curing my doubt.

In his own words he advises…” Until one reaches the liberated stage, doubts will continue to come. They may not be serious, or they can become so grave that they can impede our progress. We should not hide the fact and bluff as if we are perfect. We have to learn how to deal with the obstacles on the path.

I hope this helps

your lowly servant,
Tirtharaja Dasa.

Sunil, 15th November 2012

Hare Krishna

Please accept my humble obeisances
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada

Respected Jessica I have read your question. I humbly suggest to you that you try to chant as attentively and sincerely as you can. Process of Chanting is like meeting with God through transcendental sound vibrations

And when you are free please give as much time as you can , to reading Srila Prabhupada’s books. If any question or doubt comes
to your mind while reading Srila Prabhupada’s books , please post them here

Regards,
Sunil Vaswani

Sanil, 17th November 2012

Hare Krishna Mataji,

Kindly accept my humble obeisances,

All glories to Srila Gurudeva

Following understanding helped me a lot:

o  Srila Prabhupada says in the purport of Bhagavad-gita that one with the conviction that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead will receive the maximum benefit of reading Bhagavad-gita.  So, I wanted to be convinced

o   When I searched, I found out that the acharyas in the disciplic succession, pray to Lord and also spread Krishna Consciousness not for any material achievement or sense enjoyment. In fact they have rejected all material
benefits on their path of spiritual progress.

o   Srila Gurudeva sacrificed everything material he had except a guitar, with which he had a strong attachment.  Later on Srila Gurudeva said that he even sold that guitar for paying the rent of the temple.  I just heard a seminar
of Srila Gurudeva in the net http://www.theultimateselfrealization.com in which he says the following in between the seminar:

“I have been married and my wife is sitting here now, Vishnupriya Devi Dasi. We married since 1984. That means almost 29 years married. We remain brahmachari the whole time, strict brahmachari. I am not saying that every householder should do that, because householder life is meant for producing children. But Prabhupada said if a householder does not want to have sex life, which is very good. They can remain brahmachari. They can do that. There is a very nice verse in Srimad Bhagavatam, 7th canto (SB 7.12.11). Srila Prabhupada talks about the rules and regulations for the householders and sanyasis. I recommend that all householders should study this verse very carefully.” So, I realised that they are selfless people; they are not interested in any material achievement or sense enjoyment. Hence, I did not find any reason why I should not believe them. I feel and understand the unlimited mercy and
blessings they shower when I associate with them.

o   I also noted that associating with devotees help me lot to be focused.  By this virtual network, it is very easy for me to have association all the time.

o  Also, I realized the importance to finalize what I need at the end. So, I came to following conclusion:

o   I don’t want to be a miser – since, miser is satisfied only when he satisfy himself.  The miserly satisfaction is incomplete and temporary and doesn’t provide any real satisfaction.

o   I wanted to be a selfless lover.  So, in that process, I understood and convinced that only Srila Prabhupada’s teaching can guide me to realize these goals.

o   I wanted to achieve perfection:  To achieve perfection, I am convinced about Srila Prabhupada’s teaching that:
v  I should fully surrender to a bona-fide spiritual master who is perfectly situated, so that I can get proper guidance.
v  I should offer everything to Krishna, and my only aim should be to satisfy the senses of Krishna.  So, I need to do everything very carefully and lovingly before I offer it to Krishna and I should not do anything which Krishna
doesn’t like.  And at the end, when I achieve this, I am convinced that it will help me in the following:

o   I will be in perfect love relationship with Krishna, since I am serving Him unconditionally.

o   I will love everybody and everything (and I will not hate anybody or anything) since I know that everything is Krishna’s energy and Krishna’s arrangement.

o   With Krishna’s mercy, I will be able to transcend all dualities.

o   I will achieve spiritual perfection and unlimited bliss, since I am doing everything perfectly and unconditionally and there is no sin associated with it, and lastly,

o   I am protected, since Krishna had declared it through Arjuna that my devotee will never perish.

your servant,
Sanil kumar
“Please subscribe to daily inspirational emails from His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari, written fresh every day from his travels around the world sharing the highest spiritual knowledge with everyone. Sign up now at http://www.backtohome.com”

Why Krishna likes Raas leela?

Pradnya, 15th September 2011

Hare Krishna,

Why Krishna likes Raass Leela?

Pradnya

Ashutosh pandey, 15th September 2011

Hare Krsna!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Krsna likes Rasa Leela because it gives pleasure to His devotees which is perhaps the source of Krsna’s pleasure Himself.

your servant,
Ashutosh

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 15th September 2011

Hare Krishna Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Why does anyone like anything? Because it gives them pleasure. Every thing, for example, the color of clothes they wear on a given day, has an element of personal choice involved.

Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, Raas Leela is Supreme Enjoyment, therefore Krishna likes Raas Leela. But don’t think that any mundane person can enjoy this pleasure… Even though Krishna enjoys this pleasure, still He is always fully renounced, always Brahmachari. There is no mention of breakups and divorces and unwanted pregnancies and abortions and custody rights in the spiritual world. The attraction between boy and girl, man and woman in this material world is a perverted reflection of the pure unadulterated Love between Krishna and Radha, Krishna and the Gopis.

No mundane materialistic person can ever understand Rasa Leela, they can only misunderstand and they do. To understand Rasa Leela as interactions between ordinary boys and girls is the worst mistake one can make.

On a humble note, Srila Vyasadeva did not in fact consider Himself qualified to discuss Rasa Leela very much in detail, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu only discussed Rasa Leela in the private company of pure devotees like Raya Ramananda.

Sometimes the spiritual masters give us a glimpse into this rare and mystical spiritual experience, for example, Srila Prabhupada has described this in his Krishna book, but it is an undeserved gift, and must be gratefully accepted with great endeavor for purification by trying to chant attentively and hearing the sound of the Mahamantra, following the regulative principles and hearing the vani of the spiritual master and following the spiritual master’s instructions carefully.

your servant,
Mahabhagavat Das

Ikshvaku das, 23rd September 2011

Hare Krishna , Prabhu, to you and all other revered devotees on this group , or anywhere else,
All Glories to Shri Shri Guru and Gauranga!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Please accept my humble obeisances

I am very pleased that I could participate in this group and reading discussions here really makes my day, and want to thank to all participating devotees.

Just 2 minutes ago , I sent one letter to another group of devotees dedicated to studying Bhagavad Gita As It Is
Few hours before , I read the your question thread here and wanted to say something , but was not sure what it was.

And it is this : the essence of Rasa Leela is hearing about Krishna in the company of devotees – just like this group offers. Or any other group of pure devotees offers. These groups are not something material that ends with death. The
friendship established here goes on eternally , ever sweeter , ever increasing Ocean Of the Transcendental Bliss of Sankirtana , As Lord Chaitanya describes in His Sikshastika.

Now to mundane eyes, the Rasa Leela appears like young boy dancing with young girls. But what mundane eyes fail to see is – what is THE BOY discussing with the girls. In the material universe , discussion during the dance is sex. But what
about Krishna and the Gopis discussing while they dance and kiss and hug each other : Sankirtan – Pure devotional Service. The essence of every kiss or hug between them , you also get in the gathering of devotees who engage in pure
hearing of Krishna. As Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes the development of Pure Bhakti from Shraddha to Prema, compared to sugar candy production : 1st it is molasses and in the end after several processes , it’s very concentrated sweetness.

Or the other example , The wings of Garuda. The sound of his wings is vedic hymns. In the same way , every Kiss of Krishna is very concentrated Sankirtan topics and emotions connected with the service which the Pure Devotees
render to Him. And who are the Gopis – The Gopis are the highest pure devotees.

Srila Prabhupada describes in Krishna Book that that night of Rasa Lila was the duration of Lord Brahma’s night – 4320000000 earthly years. But the topics the Gopis discussed with Krishna during this night of dance, the
hugs and the kisses between them were so sweet  , that to them , it felt just like an ordinary night. Does the mondane sex possesses such sweetness? no it ends in just few feeble seconds – Like Srila prabhupada said – Psh, psh, psh.

Srila Prabhupada further explains that there is original taste of Sex – Adirasa , which comes from the Spiritual world.
But in the spiritual world the nasty mundane process of sex is completely absent , although there are hugs and kisses.

Of course how can I disscuss the Rassa lila Dace properly , but but somehow your question evoked in me , a systematic picture , from what I have heard from the Guru Prampara so far. Although information given from them is surely unique , it’s
highly possible that due to my own missunderstanding , I’m not able to present it correctly. That’s why ,  that’s why- this is not directly an attempt to answer question ,
but it’s an attempt to present what I have understood this far , which may be be corrected or further described

your servant
Ikshvaku das
Sofia , Bulgaria

“Please subscribe to daily inspirational emails from His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari, written fresh every day from his travels around the world sharing the highest spiritual knowledge with everyone. Sign up now at www.backtohome.com

Sincerity in occupation by sincerity in devotional service

Sunil, Nov 6 2011

Please accept my humble obeisances

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Is it true that if a person is sincere in devotional service then that person would automatically be sincere in his or her occupation too?

Regards,

Sunil

Jagannatha Dasa, Nov 7 2011

Hare Krishna Sunil,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Thank you for participating. 

For a sincere practitioner of devotional service, all that one does is calibrated to fit into devotional service. 

One’s work, diet, recreation, relationships and aspirations are all included in the course of their devotional service.  Cf. Bhagavad-Gita 9.27

yat karosi yad asnasi

yaj juhosi dadasi yat

yat tapasyasi kaunteya

tat kurusva mad-arpanam

TRANSLATION

Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away, and whatever austerities you perform—do that, O son of Kunti, as an offering to Me.

I mention this because your question assumes a false distinction between devotional service and one’s occupation. 

Since, one’s occupation is just as much a part of devotional service as, for example, chanting or book distribution, then it follows that our sincerity should manifest there to the same degree as in our chanting etc. 

It is a common misconception that work is not part of bhakti, and Krishna takes the whole of Bhagavad-Gita to explain to Arjuna, and us, how work is in fact, perfected when performed under the guidance of the bona fide spiritual master.

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa

Karma kanda and bhakti

Sanil Kumar, Sep 14 2011

Dear devotees,

 Hare Krishna

Kindly accept my humble obeisances

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

 I am a little confused about Karma Kanda and bhakti.  In BG, Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to continue his occupational duty as a Kshatriya and fight with Kauravas for Krishna with mind fixed on Him.

In line with recent Thought of the Day by Srila Gurudeva, If we do our normal occupational duties (with detachment) for Krishna with targeting 100% perfection to please Krishna 100%, and spending the opulence thus obtained in Krishna conscious way, does it not a bhakti yoga?

Is doing occupational duty karma yoga?

Kindly guide me.

Your humble servant,

Sanil kumar

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, Sep 15 2011

Hare Krishna Sanil Kumar Prabhu,

 Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada and his glorious disciples.

 Thank you for your question Prabhu. You do bring up an important point, what is the difference between Bhakti and Karma Kanda.

Yes, we all must perform our occupational duties, for a Grihastha, of working, maintaining family, and supporting Krishna conscious projects. Even Srila Prabhupada himself did this. My spiritual master did this also. Ideally, this means to get sufficient money ethically to advance Krishna Consciousness in ourselves, our family, friends, and society at large, according to our capacity.

But Karma Kanda sections of the Vedic literature are not really an occupational duty for most of us. Karma Kanda means those Vedic sacrifices which result in elevated birth, life in heavenly planet, etc. There are thousands of them, and if you try to perform them, it will be impossible to perform them perfectly, the required circumstances just don’t exist on this planet currently. Yes, Krishna asked Arjuna to perform his duty, and fight. But in the present day and age, even the so-called Brahmanas by birth are actually Shudras and lower than Shudras. Why is this? What is the occupational duty of a Shudra “paricharyatmakam”, means service to others in exchange for money. Practically the whole world population is doing this, simply serving someone else, and that someone else is serving someone else, and so on. There are practically no Kshatriyas left. Yes, there are some Brahmanas left, they don’t depend on anyone but the Lord for their livelihood, and they don’t do anything for the sake of earning money, if money comes they accept but they don’t avoid something just because there is/is not money involved. They don’t treat a money-giver separate from a no-money-giver. There are also some Vaishyas left, especially those who engage in cow protection. But otherwise, 99.9999% of population is pursuing Shudra occupations. So, most people in general are not even qualified to follow or lead the Vedic Karma Kanda sections which are very elaborate.

Bhakti is the bonus for this day and age, thanks to Chaitanya Mahaprabhu’s mercy upon us. Anyone can practice it. No qualifications needed, except the greed to serve the devotees Prabhu. Laulyam. Greed. Also for the Holy Name, for Krishna, to please the spiritual master.

The main difference between Karma Kanda and Bhakti, is that Karma Kanda is for the satisfaction of the material senses, whether present or future, even though there is some purification.

However, Bhakti is 100% for the pleasure of Krishna, and there is natural transcendental pleasure in it, but it is not obtained by trying to get pleasure, rather by trying to give pleasure to Krishna and the devotees.

So if we are engaging in the occupational duty solely with the desire to please Krishna, then it is Bhakti, otherwise, it is just Karma.

And if we are using the proceeds of the activities for Krishna Conscious activities, then it is Karma Yoga. In fact, the perfection of Karma Yoga is Bhakti Yoga… in other words if someone is completely pure, then there is no question of anything other than pure 100% Bhakti. But if there is a tinge of tendency to mentally speculate, then it if jnana-mishra bhakti, not pure, and if there is a tinge of desire to enjoy the results, then it is karma-mishra bhakti, not pure Bhakti.

I am not pure by any stretch of the imagination; all sorts of contaminations are there. But I am not disheartened, because I see that by following the process of chanting, following the regulative principles, and obeying the orders of the Guru, some more attraction for Krishna and the Holy Name and service to the devotees and service to all the living entities is developing, even if it is 0.00001%, it was 0.0% before, so the process is working.

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

 Premal, Sep 15 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu

All glories to Swami Prabhupada

Please accept my humble obeisances

Prabhu what does tinge of mental speculation and material desires by example if you could kindly give?

Ys servant

Premal

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, Sep 15 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

 We must understand that pure bhakti is much higher than jnana which is higher than karma.

A pure devotee is very simple; they are not interested in philosophical speculation or any kind of opulence. They have a relationship with Krishna, and they will do whatever is needed in that relationship, but they are not interested in anything outside. Mother Yashoda is a pure devotee. If anyone tells her that her son is God, she will think they have lost their marbles. She thinks that Krishna will die if she does not feed Him milk sweets… their devotion is completely untinged. They want nothing from Krishna except to serve Him.

Example for the most advanced devotees with material desires, or “karma mishra Bhakta” are the “suras” or the demigods, like Indra, Chandra, Vivaswan (king of Sun planet), even Lord Brahma, etc. They are definitely devotees, but they have the desire to control, create, and enjoy, so therefore, according to their natures and according to their pious credits or “punya”, they are given the respective posts, a long life, etc. But after that life, if they have not become fully purified, then they must come back to material world in a lower position… this is an endless process of going up and down the ladder unless one regains pure devotional service.

Krishna says:

te tam bhuktva svarga-lokam visalam

ksine punye martya-lokam visanti

evam trayi-dharmam anuprapanna

gatagatam kama-kama labhante

“When they have thus enjoyed vast heavenly sense pleasure and the results of their pious activities are exhausted, they return to this mortal planet again. Thus those who seek sense enjoyment by adhering to the principles of the three Vedas achieve only repeated birth and death.” BG 9.21.

In a lecture dated Feb 5, 2010, His Holiness Bhanu Swami is explaining this very nicely.

http://iskcon-transcriptions.com/transcriptions/mayapur_lectures/hh-bhanu-swami-sb-3-32-22/

Especially, see this section:

“The karmi goes to Svargaloka or Brahmaloka. So what does the karma misra bhakta get? He must get better than that. So yes he does. He can actually get sarupya, salokya, and sarsti in the spiritual world. That much he can get. What about the jnana misra bhakta? He is a little bit of jnana. Next to it is bhakti. Little bit of desire to escape from the material world and get peace and all that. He gets more than the jnani gets. The jnani has mostly jnana and a little bit bhakti. He gets liberation, impersonal liberation – merges in Brahman, sayuja. One who has bhakti with a little bit of jnana must go beyond that. So yes of course – spiritual world, develops a little relationship with the Lord, santa rasa.

 

Why santa rasa? Because he wants to be peaceful! That jnana mixture is there in his bhakti. So he wants peace. So he gets that in the spiritual world. This type of person will not appreciate the gopis. The gopis are not peaceful at all. They are always in anxiety. “Where is Krishna?” If they are separated from Krishna for one second they are disturbed. They pray that Brahma made a fault because he made eyelids. When we blink our eyelids we cannot see Krishna for a second so they curse Brahma because that one second when their eyelids close they cannot see Krishna causes separation. And they become very disturbed.

 

So the devotees of the spiritual world are subject to that especially when you go higher and higher in the rasas. So the people that want to be peaceful will not be very attracted to that. So they are very content with the santa rasa, a very peaceful relationship in the spiritual world. This is what happens when you get mixed bhakti. It is better than karma yoga, jnana yoga, astanga yoga with a little bhakti and of course if you do just without bhakti you get nothing.  If you do karma yoga and astanga yoga with bhakti you get a result. If you do this you get better. All bhakti and no mixture then we get these develop relationships with the Supreme Lord, which is very satisfying.”

 Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das