Tag: beauty

Is Krishna’s (God’s) love conditional or unconditional?

A heartfelt exchange between Mahabhagavat Das and a seeker wrestling with the notion of Krishna’s love. Initially perceiving it as conditional, the seeker grapples with doubts stemming from teachings and personal experiences. The response emphasizes that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, while our surrender can be conditional. The discussion highlights the importance of free will and the mercy found in life’s challenges. Ultimately, the seeker finds solace in recognizing Krishna’s unwavering love and encouragement to ask questions without fear.

This article outlines a discussion between Mahabhagavat Das and a sincere seeker. It focuses on the nature of the Supreme Lord Krishna’s love. This discussion is based on an email thread.

The Initial Question and Doubt

Q: Why does it seem that Krishna’s love is conditional, requiring our complete surrender first?

The doubt arose from specific teachings and anecdotes:

  • Conditions for Protection: A discourse by H.H. Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha Swamiji cited the Bhagavad Gita verse (9.22), “ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham.” He explained that Krishna offers protection when two conditions are met:
  • 1) We worship and surrender utterly to Him only, and
    • 2) We do this eternally.
  • The Draupadi Example: In the pastime where Draupadi was being disrobed, Krishna did not immediately rescue her. He only supplied endless cloth when she let go of her own saree and surrendered completely. This suggested to the questioner that Krishna was being conditional.
  • The Argument for Conditional Love: A discussion with another devotee led to the idea that love, even God’s, is conditional. This is similar to how human relationships can end when one partner does something the other dislikes. Srila Prabhupada once mentioned “rascaldom” existing in Krishna. This raised the question of whether “conditional love” could also exist in the Supreme Lord.

The Core Question: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will He not provide for us protection, etc., if we don’t love Him? The Response: Unconditional Love and Conditional Surrender

Q: How is this understanding of conditional love a misunderstanding?

A: The essential truth is that Krishna’s love is not conditional; it is our surrender that is conditional. In real, transcendental love, the lover never stops loving. The notion that a relationship can end is a trait of lust. It is like saying, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine,” and not pure love.

  • The Conditional Factor: It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but rather us not accepting it.
  • The Role of Free Will: Krishna is a true Lover and does not force Himself upon us. If we are trying to help ourselves through other means, why should Krishna interfere? He respects our free will.
  • The Purpose of Experience: Krishna allows us to experience whatever we need to experience. This is also a form of mercy:
    • Parent/Child Analogy: A parent might let a child get slightly burned by a flame. This prevents greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to be hurt, but the momentary experience is for a higher protection.
    • Karmic Reactions as Mercy: Even when facing karmic reactions, we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy through those reactions. This is like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. One is a mercy for law-abiding citizens. The other is a mercy for those who chose not to be.

Resolution and Affirmation

Q: After consideration, what was the realization about Krishna’s love?

A: The questioner realized that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, citing the following observations:

  • Beauty of Creation: Krishna made the world beautiful with colors, flowers, and many beautiful things.
  • Incarnations: He mercifully incarnates so many times to guide us back to Him or to save us.
  • Telling the Secret of Secrets: He bothers to tell the secret of all secrets, demonstrating His care.
  • Steadfast Love: He never stops giving us His love. He continues to do so even when people insult or ridicule Him. Some fools even call Him a “False God”, but Krishna loves them too.

Q: Are such difficult questions considered offensive?

A: No. Questions asked in good faith to understand and deepen one’s Krishna Consciousness are not an offense. This is part of the principle of “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati” (confiding in and inquiring from a spiritual well-wisher). The questioner was encouraged to continue asking questions. One is always welcome to ask questions from one’s teachers. We are also encouraged to ask mentors and peers who are sincere in their approach to Krishna Consciousness.

Original Email Exchange (anonymized)

Email 1

Dear prabhuji,
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

I was listening to a short lecture by HH Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha swamiji. He is the Mathadhipati of Sri Puthige matha and the current paryaya of Udupi Krishna matha. He was explaining about Krishna’s protection.

In Bhagavad Gita, there is the verse ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (9.22).
He said that Krishna will offer protection to us, provided we fulfill two conditions –

  1. We worship Him and Him only. We surrender utterly to Him only and worship only Him. We cannot do this for whichever devata we want, only Krishna
  2. We do this eternally. No just the bad days or the good days, but for all days.

Swamiji also recounted the pastime where Krishna told the Pandavas something meaningful. Krishna said He liked Draupadi the most among all Pandavas. This was in response to being asked who He liked. Draupadi got angry. She asked Krishna why He didn’t immediately rescue her when getting disrobed by Dushasan in the sabha. It happened in front of everyone. She had even called His many names. Krishna told her that while she was doing that, one hand was raised up. The other was clinging onto her saree. But when she realized even she couldn’t save herself, she let go completely. She surrendered utterly. As a result, He saved her by supplying endless cloth.

Later, I pondered over this and realized that Krishna was being conditional. He isn’t going to protect us just like that. He wants our surrender first. I then asked for an explanation from someone, also a devotee of Lord Vishnu, why Krishna was setting such conditions. She said that even love is conditional. If you do something I don’t like, won’t I not like you and stop loving you? It felt a bit unfair, especially in terms of God’s love. But then I remember hearing stories. In those stories, lovers stopped loving each other. They did so because they were doing something the other didn’t like. If that can happen between lovers, why can’t it happen between us and God?

Srila Prabhupada, on 27 February 1972, recounted how Krishna used to act around with Radharani. This behavior superficially made Him the greatest rascal. He then said “Unless rascaldom is in Krishna, how could rascaldom exist in the world?”. Rascaldom can exist in us as it is in Krishna. Therefore, conditional love can exist in Krishna too. It feels like a bitter pill to swallow for me, if it is true, but it is what it is.

My question is: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will he not provide for us things protection etc if we don’t love Him?

Sorry for the long message. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way.

Hari bol
Your servant
A

Response 1

Dear A,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I don’t know how you got into this grave misunderstanding that Krishna’s love is conditional. I don’t know why this other devotee is spreading their misunderstandings to you as well.

You have no understanding of love. In real love, the lover never stops loving. That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prays “mat praana naathas tu sa eva na parah”. But in lust, the relationship can end. It can happen if the relationship is based on “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine”.

What Sugunendra Teertha Swami was saying is 100% correct. What Srila Prabhupada is saying is 100% correct. Your understanding, though, is 100% wrong.

It is not that Krishna’s love is conditional, but that our surrender is conditional. It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but us not accepting Krishna’s mercy. Should Krishna force Himself upon us and intervene when we really don’t want Him to?

Consider this…

  1. We have free will
  2. Krishna does not force Himself upon us as a true Lover
  3. So, if we are trying to help ourselves through other means, then why should Krishna interfere?

Krishna will let us experience whatever it is that we need to experience! Just like a parent, a child might get a little burned by the flame. This is to protect the child from greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to get hurt!

It is the same in modern life. We get vaccinated against certain diseases so we can avoid the actual disease. However, the vaccine itself can cause some side effects. It can even cause a fever sometimes.

Finally, if we are doing something and facing karmic reactions, then through those karmic reactions we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy…

It is just like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. A university is a mercy towards law abiding citizens. A prison is a mercy for those who chose not to be law abiding.

Does this make sense to you?

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
dasadas.com

Response 2


Hare krishna prabhuji!
Thanks for taking the time out to respond to my question. I was in a bad headspace that time and having very negative thoughts on Krishna. Forgive me for any offences caused.
I saw a video related to this and realized krishna does love us. He made this world so beautiful with colours, flowers and many beautiful things. He incarnates mercifully to guide us back to Him or to save us. Even when people insult Him or ridicule, He never stops giving us his love. If He really never loved us, why would this world be beautiful? Why would he bother to incarnate more than 10 times? Why would He bother to tell the secret of all secrets?
Thanks for making me understand!
Hare Krishna

Response 3

Hare Krishna A,

We all go through difficult moments.

Questions asked in good faith are meant to understand and deepen our Krishna Consciousness. In this context, there is no offense. That is one of the meanings of the “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati”.

My prayer to Sri Krishna and you is that you may receive His full shelter…. He is giving all shelter, and that you may fully accept His shelter.

You are welcome to ask questions. I am always welcome to ask questions from my spiritual masters, mentors, and peers.

Bodily Consciousness, Miss America, and Suicide

Recently, an accomplished young lady committed suicide. What is the root cause of it? What is the consequence of it? What can we do to stop this?

In recent classes on the Srimad Bhagavatam, my spiritual master mentioned this sad news.

Why did a beautiful, young, highly educated young lady, crowned as Miss America recently commit suicide? Yes, Cheslie Kryst, former Miss America, an attorney, committed suicide on Jan 31, 2022! This was incredibly sad that such a gifted person thought it fit to end her valuable human life in this way.

Not long ago, a young school girl, Mallory, just 12 years of age, committed suicide too.

These are just two sad examples of many, many.

Some people are faulting social media, and Big Tech. The argument goes that these platforms are designed and created to be addictive, and these platforms don’t enforce discipline or proper behavior among the users, and so, harassment from others is the cause of the suicide. There is some truth to this.

But just like all other material solutions to material problems, it is only a partial truth. Partial truths only create more problems further down the road.

It is true that platforms like Facebook and Instagram are designed to be addictive. In Mathematics, there is a concept called “necessary and sufficient condition”… sometimes a condition is “necessary” but not “sufficient”. This means that unless all the necessary and the sufficient conditions are met, a certain statement is not true.

The fact is that there are a lot of different causes that cause this problem. If you start analyzing the problem, you will find that our entire social order, our systems, our institutions, and our societies each contribute to this problem. But how to attack the problem at it’s root?

When we examine harassment on social media, negative body image, resulting depression, and reduction of self-confidence to the extent of committing suicide, the primary condition to cause all the other problem is bodily consciousness.

What is “Miss America”? It is an external material designation, awarded to someone almost arbitrarily, on the basis of their body, and to some extent, their mind. So, the very “achievement” deepens and locks someone into bodily consciousness. So this Miss America thing is a big part of the problem, because of course, every idiot has their own idea of what is beautiful and what is not. Everyone who organizes it, everyone who participates in it, everyone who watches it, and everyone who attaches any value or any importance to it is a victim of this terrible disease of bodily consciousness.

Yes, bodily consciousness. Thinking that we are these bodies is the fundamental root cause of the problem.

We are spirit souls, or “Atma”. We are completely non-material.

In fact, the spirit soul wears two bodies, just like we wear outwear and underwear… The “outerwear” in the case of the spirit soul, is these gross material body. And the “underwear” in the case of the spirit soul is the subtle material body, consisting of mind, intelligence, and false ego.

What is false ego? Exactly the very root of the problem. False ego means “I am this body, I am this mind”. To confuse and conflate the identity of the pure spirit soul with temporary identities like the gross and material bodies is the pastime of fools like Descartes. And due to these very smart and clever fools, innocent people are being misled, even to the point of suicide.

In the material energy, the principal manifestations are eight, as above mentioned. Out of these, the first five manifestations, namely earth, water, fire, air and sky, are called the five gigantic creations or the gross creations, within which the five sense objects are included. They are the manifestations of physical sound, touch, form, taste and smell. Material science comprises these ten items and nothing more. But the other three items, namely mind, intelligence and false ego, are neglected by the materialists.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/7/4/ purport

Spiritual life begins at the point when we realize our identity as spirit soul. Any religious, philosophical or scientific tradition which does not clearly help us understand this is purely material in nature.

It is extremely sad that violence is being committed upon God’s dear souls every single day. And one should be extremely angry with those who are perpetrating this violence?

What is violence and what is non-violence? Violence means denying someone their right. If you have a right to be somewhere, and someone denies you that right, then that is violence against you.

Dear Spirit Soul, you are not this body, you are spirit soul, an eternal associate of God. Why are you accepting this horrible violence being perpetrated on you, making you believe that you are this body, you are this mind?

Wake up! Free yourself from these shackles! And the moment you do, you will no longer be fodder for those peddling sense gratification. You will not be addicted to Wordle, you will not be addicted to Facebook, you will not be addicted to Instagram, you will not be addicted to LinkedIn, and you will never have a negative thought about yourself for all of eternity.

Because you will know who you are, and you will be who you are. Eternal, Full of Knowledge and Ever-increasing Bliss – these are your qualities as a spirit soul.

You will then participate in the most enlivening, adventurous, loving interactions, together with other spiritually perfected beings, in the service of God.

Are you struggling with any negativity because of being misled like these unfortunate souls? Do you know someone suffering like this? Send them this article! Let me know, I will gladly point in the right direction, and you will be ever-increasingly happy.

To the gross materialist who cannot see anything beyond the gross material body, there is nothing beyond the senses. Therefore his occupational activities are limited to concentrated and extended selfishness. Concentrated selfishness centers around the personal body—this is generally seen amongst the lower animals. Extended selfishness is manifested in human society and centers around the family, society, community, nation and world with a view to gross bodily comfort.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/1/2/8/ purport

At the minimum, you should know the consequence of committing suicide… when someone kills their gross material body, they are not released from their subtle material body. So, the soul, because it is not yet time to acquire a new gross material body, has to remain in the subtle material body till the allotted lifetime is finished.

This is called, remaining on as a ghost. The ghosts, they do not possess a gross material body or senses, though they have many material desires for sense gratification. Just imagine how frustrating it is to want to drink water but have no hands, no tongue, no throat, and no stomach! Such is the fate of the ghost. In order to enjoy material experiences, ghosts have a need to inhabit other material bodies… and this happens when a person becomes intensely angry, or unspeakably morose, drunk, drugged, or otherwise inebriated. When this happens, a ghost finds it easy to enter such a body, and act through that body.

Ghosts are bereft of a physical body because of their grievously sinful acts, such as suicide. The last resort of the ghostly characters in human society is to take shelter of suicide, either material or spiritual. Material suicide causes loss of the physical body, and spiritual suicide causes loss of the individual identity. 

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/3/14/24/ purport

This is why we find instances of perfectly normal people doing things they would have never dreamed of doing. For example a gentle schoolteacher might murder someone, a devoted mother might abuse their child, a policeman may end up committing a most heinous crime. Of course, the ghost cannot be punished in a human court of law!

So it is all very very sad. This intense bodily consciousness and the resultant side effects must be stopped.

How can you stop this? First you have to perfect yourself. How can you do it?

Here is a start, chant this Mantra as much as you can:

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

The Hare Krishna Mahamantra

And to understand who you really are, read this book carefully The Bhagavad Gita As It Is. To be free is your right, don’t surrender it! I can help you get your own copy!

Beauty is not accidental or incidental. Beauty is Intentional.

The other day, in trying to help a friend, I met with Yolande Edwards, who definitely has an eye for spotting natural beauty. On the walls of her office were beautiful pictures she captured. Those pictures can transport one to natural serenity, even in the midst of the most chaos.

Looking at the pictures (all pictures in this blog post are by Yolande Edwards), I reflected on the phrase “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”, but actually there is no beauty to behold unless there is intrinsically some beauty to behold. So, Yolande definitely has the eyes to see that beauty.

Then, I started to reflect on how all that beauty came to be? A famous thought goes like this “If a tree crashes in the forest and there was no one to hear it crash, then did it make a sound?”, in other words, “if someone didn’t see beauty, then was there any beauty at all?”

But not to get sidetracked with pointless mental speculations… beauty is all around us, and talented poets, philosophers, artists, photographers, and other creative individuals give us access to that beauty that pervades the world, the universe, and is all around us.

Even if there is beauty to be perceived, without the right talent, without the right intent, that beauty may not be perceived. But we see that beauty is strewn all around almost carelessly, like a master artist whose every brush stroke is a masterpiece, or a musician who, even while tuning their instrument makes the most heavenly sounds.

I began to reflect that whether beauty was perceived or not, still, the creation of beauty, the perception of beauty, all of it is intentional, not incidental or accidental… it is not that somehow accidentally some leaves arranged themselves in some beautiful patterns, or the trees arranged themselves into some pretty scene… the clouds, the winds, the skies, the stars, didn’t accidentally show up as beautiful, but there is a grand master of beauty behind it all, as said in the Christian literature “The Lord God made them all”.

In giving thanks to talented souls like Yolande, we should not forget the Supreme Talented Super Soul, the source of all beauty.

Bg. 10.41
यद्यद्विभूतिमत्सत्त्वं श्रीमदूर्जितमेव वा ।
तत्तदेवावगच्छ त्वं मम तेजोंऽशसंभवम् ॥ १०.४१ ॥
yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ
śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā
tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ
mama tejo-’ṁśa-sambhavam

Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/10/41/

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