The Sun, The Moon, Distances, and The Universal Arrangement

How is it that the statements of the Vedic Scriptures in the matter of dimensions of the sun, moon, and the distances between them don’t match with the modern scientific theories?

Partha Das, 28 October 2019

Hare Krsna, Dandavats,

Could you throw some light on the shloka from the 5th canto of Bhagavatam 5.25.2.

The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and Rāhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles].

Thanks

Partha Das

Subodh, 29 October 2019

Cosmic and materials knowledge can only affirmed the belief of Krishna’s expansion but can’t get rid of from birth and death cycles, without yug mantras given by mahaprabhu, hence chant hare krishna simply be happy, 

Subodh

Partha Das, 29 October 2019

Very true Prabhuji. But a foundation made of solid knowledge will make us very good devotees of the Lord

Partha Das

Manoj Tripathi, 29th October 2019

Hare Krishna Partha Prabhu.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada,

All glories to Guru Maharaja.

The verse number is 5.24.2

Here, Śrī Śukadeva Gosvāmī is talking about the sizes of Sun, Moon, and Rahu. Before this verse, he talked about the distance of Rahu from the Sun. 

To adherents of modern science, it may all sound very confusing, or even laughable. However, it should be noted that the Jyotisha Shastras deal with planetary orbits and sizes, and they have been predicting eclipses, seasons etc. very well [1]. Modern measurements on size of the planets and distances (including Sun and moon!) match well with the data given in Surya Siddhanta [2]. Bhagavatam’s picture of the universe may seem to contradict Jyotisha Shastras at some points; however, a detailed study would reveal that everything is in order. And Srila Prabhupada wanted his PhDs to go through these details and construct a model of the universe presented in Bhagavatam and display it in Mayapur [3].   

[1] http://richardlthompson.com/book/vedic-cosmography-and-astronomy

[2] https://vedabase.io/en/library/cc/adi/3/8/

[3] https://vanisource.org/w/index.php?title=760427_-_Letter_to_Svarupa_Damodara_written_from_Auckland&t=hl#terms=Ph.D

Manoj Tripathi

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 30 October 2019

Dear Sriman Partha,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

All gratitude to all the group members for participating in this worldwide group…

Srimad Bhagavatam is Amala Purana, the spotless Purana, is the literary incarnation of Krishna Himself. Everything mentioned in the Srimad Bhagavatam is the Supreme Absolute Truth, even if we may struggle to understand how. Verses and purports that I read in the Bhagavatam say ten years ago sometimes make sense to me now, after all the additional context, or in a class, or somehow by Guru’s and Krishna’s mercy.

What is your actual concern with SB 5.25.2?

ŚB 5.25.2

yasyedaṁ kṣiti-maṇḍalaṁ bhagavato ’nanta-mūrteḥ sahasra-śirasa ekasminn eva śīrṣaṇi dhriyamāṇaṁ siddhārtha iva lakṣyate.

yasyedaṁ kṣiti-maṇḍalaṁ bhagavato ’nanta-mūrteḥ sahasra-śirasa ekasminn eva śīrṣaṇi dhriyamāṇaṁ siddhārtha iva lakṣyate.

Śukadeva Gosvāmī continued: This great universe, situated on one of Lord Anantadeva’s thousands of hoods, appears just like a white mustard seed. It is infinitesimal compared to the hood of Lord Ananta.

There is no purport.

Did you mean some other statement?

Mahabhagavat Das

Partha Das, 31 October 2019

Hare Krsna, Dandavats,

Apologies for mentioning the wrong shloka number.

The correct shloka is 5.24.2

The sun globe, which is a source of heat, extends for 10,000 yojanas [80,000 miles]. The moon extends for 20,000 yojanas [160,000 miles], and Rāhu extends for 30,000 yojanas [240,000 miles].

your Servant

Partha Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 12 November 2019

Dear Sriman Partha,

Hare Krishna!

Yes, as I stated before, the Srimad Bhagavatam is spotless, faultless. Everything mentioned in the Bhagavatam is the Supreme Absolute Truth. We may not be able to understand it, just as sometimes ordinary people cannot understand the words of a great genius…That being known, what exactly is your question?

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

Partha Das, 12 November 2019

Hare Krsna,

My question is that the shloka is not clear wrt what we learned in school about the sizes of these planets and the distance between them.

Dandavats

Partha Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 13 November 2019

Dear Sriman Partha,

Hare Krishna!

Yes, there are 2 ways of receiving knowledge – one is called the “arohapanthi” or the “ascending process”. The other is called “avarohapanthi” or “descending process”. The material scientists follow the ascending process (base one fact upon another that is proven), we follow the descending process. Our process is that there is the Creator and we get all our information from Him. In theory, both processes should reach the same conclusions, but in the ascending process, there are a lot of pitfalls, mistakes, etc., and the ascending process cannot discover information that is spiritual in nature.

It is important not to position the scripture and material science as competitors… Chaitanya Charan Prabhu makes that clear that both deal with different subject matters and have totally different perspectives, and he goes on to show how both are correct.

Here is an example from Chaitanya Charan Prabhu… if you mix charcoal powder with white chalk powder, you get a grey substance. Everyone can see that it is a grey substance. But when you look at the powder under the microscope there is no grey substance to be found, it is either white particles or black particles, no grey. The person looking with the naked eye says grey, the person with the microscope says black and white, and both argue – but both are right. He has numerous examples where the scripture and material science say different things but both are correct…

There is also a BBT book called “The Scientific Basis of Krishna Consciousness” by Bhakti Swarup Damodar Maharaja who was also a scientist before he took Sannyas and even after that he founded the Bhaktivedanta Institute. That book is a must-read for anyone who is interested in these sorts of subjects.

The structure of the Universe is vast, but still material, and yes, the ascending process could possibly discover the entire material truth, but it may take a long time, if at all.

Our mundane material textbooks are presently based on a big fat lie – that this Universe came from nothing. The Big Bang theory is just a theory with no conclusive evidence to support it, it is a fairy tale. Something cannot come from nothing, not even one little electron, or one nanometer of space can be created from nothing. So, the fact that we learned that in our textbooks means that the knowledge we studied there is imperfect.

When I was in school and university, I saw that with Maths and Physics, one little mistake in a proof or derivation can lead us to the wrong conclusion… in those cases, my mistakes were caught by my more expert classmates, seniors, or teachers. But in the realm of theoretical physics, as the field gets more and more specialized and sub-specialized, the reviewer pool gets very very small, to the extent that on a certain topic maybe 3 people in the world understand enough to be able to review the papers. Then, what those three people do is, collude and write papers that they each other review and approve – thus getting tenures and grants from various agencies. No one else can possibly know that they are making a mistake – the fields are too arcane. This was revealed to Srila Gurudeva when he was spreading Krishna consciousness in a small University town in America by a Post-doc researcher who was coming to the temple. I have also met many researchers who said the same thing… basically it is a closed club where nepotism and corruption exists. Sometimes the researcher does research and publishes it knowing it to be wrong, and then the following year, they just publish another paper saying they were wrong.

Our mundane material textbooks are consequently revised many times… this is true of medical texts, and many other fields of material knowledge.

But the Vedic scriptures are coming from Krishna, perfect, constant, not revised, no additions or subtractions, no errata, no addenda.

With regard to astronomy and so on, one of the disciples of Srila Prabhupada, Sadaputa Dasa (Richard Thompson) (who passed away recently) has written many books that help to understand the Vedic astronomy better. And also, the Temple of the Vedic Planetariaum being built in Mayapur will help with that. Also, books and writings by Drutakarma Prabhu (Michael Cremo) are helpful.

For example, Sadaputa Prabhu said that the “islands of earth” mentioned in the Bhagavatam are different planet in the earthly system of planets… and that the “flatness of the earth” describes “planetary rings”… To be honest the writings are so intricate that I didn’t invest my time and effort into understanding them.

Until then, we say what we need to say to pass exams, get jobs, etc., and it is also possible we don’t fully understand how the Bhagavatam could be correct. But, after reflecting on all these types of questions which I also had many of, I can decide how important this is to our spiritual progress to know the distance of the sun and moon etc.

Does this help?

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

Sundar Gopal Das, 13 November 2019

Dear Bhakta Partha,

In addition to the wonderful reflection by HG Mahabhagavat Prabhuji, you can hear the answer from HG Chaitanya Charan Prabhuji by clicking the following link:

With regards,

Sundar Gopal Das 

Partha Das, 13 November 2019

Yes Prabhuji. I guess Krsna will keep on revealing more things to us, as we progress in Krsna consciousness.

Thanks

Partha Das

Jayakrishna, 25 November 2019

Hare Krishna!

I think The following conversation is really addressing this question

“Dr. Singh. Because the scientists haven’t detected any water on the surface of the moon, they’ve concluded that no life could survive there.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. They haven’t seen the whole surface of the moon. Suppose someone were to come here from another planet, drop into the Arabian Desert and then return home. Could he come to a complete conclusion about the nature of the whole earth? His knowledge would not be complete”

(The First Morning Walk: April 18, 1973)

It is only recently the science  proved the presence of water in moon surface!! 

With humble obeisances,

Jayakrishna Ramanuja dasa

Partha Das, 26 November 2019

Yes. It seems scientists keep changing their statements too often. Difficult to believe their theories like big bang , Darwin theory etc.

Partha Das

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Is there life on the Moon?

IS there life on the Moon? The Vedic scriptures talk about the Moon as a heavenly realm with celestial beings and soma drink, etc., we have had so many missions, why did they not find anyone there?

Partha Das, 7th October 2019

Hare Krsna,

Q) We heard of  so many moon missions and the latest by India.  So many satellites are orbiting the moon ? No life had ever been found till date on moon? However our scriptures talk of Chandra as a devta living with his associates on moon planet, drinking Soma rasa etc. How do we explain the contradictions?

Dandavats,

Partha Das

Anuradha, 8 October 2019

This is from Gurudev’s lesson. I have copied and pasted here , Think it answers.

Lesson Completed on 23 May 2016 in Kaunas, Lithuania

————————————————————–

Srila Prabhupada explains in his purport to Bhagavad-gita 8.25 that there is a higher class of living beings on the moon, although they may not be perceivable to our gross senses. He also mentions that Vedas teach a method of how one can go to the moon and get a moon body in his next birth. He points as well out the futility of this because eventually these moon beings have to come back to the earth. Considering all of these points we can easily see why doing austerities to get a moon body are not worth it. It is better we do austerities to attain the planet of Krishna because from that planet there is no coming back down to suffer once again on the earth planet or in any planet in this material world.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

www.joincourse.com

 —

Anuradha

Jahnava , 8 October 2019

Hare Krsna

Thank you!

Jahnava

Partha Das, 8 October 2019

Thanks for the reply. Helpful. Dandavats, Hare Krsna.

Partha Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 8 October, 2019

Dear Partha,

Hare Krishna!

In addition to this, we should think about situation on this planet… North America and Europe have very opulent countries, very rich and very different to many other countries in the world. But to enter into it someone needs a proper visa or permit. Without visa if someone even comes here (by hiding in some corner of an aircraft, for example, as one Indian man did some years ago), then they will only see the inside of a jail cell. Then they can come, be arrested, be sent back, and say “well, this Canada and USA and Norway and Germany, they are just jails, nothing more to it”. Our situation trying to go to the moon without authorization is somewhat like that.

Just like a smart adult can make a little child think that there is a monster behind the closet or the world ends at the front door (to prevent the child from harm or entering some unauthorized place), similarly, the higher beings led by Chandradeva and those entities can direct the spacecraft to the dark planets that are between us and the moon.

It is clear that one cannot enter the heavenly planets by mechanical means. Ravana tried to build a staircase to heaven, these are little Ravanas, they are not even as capable of that great demon. Happy Dussehra to everyone btw.

This Dussehra, I pray that just as Lord Ramachandra killed the demon Ravana on this day of Vijaya Dashami, similarly, Lord Rama may please kill this Ravana like mentality in our hearts, to enjoy God’s property separately from God. May Lord Ramachandra purify our consciousness.

Hare Krishna Hare Krishna

Krishna Krishna Hare Hare

Hare Rama Hare Rama

Rama Rama Hare Hare

Hope this helps,

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

dasadas.com

Partha Das, 8 October 2019

Thanks, hare Krsna, dandavats

Partha Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 8 October 2019

The book to read in this connection is:

http://krishna.com/books/easy-journey-to-other-planets

This book is also available online at: https://www.vedabase.com/en/ej

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

dasadas.com

Partha Das, 9 October 2019

Noted.Prabhuji. will read the book. 

Partha Das

Sundar Gopal Das, 11 October 2019

Dear Sriman Bhakta Partha,

Hare Krishna!

Pls accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

All glories to Sri Guru & Gauranga.

Relevant to the above interesting discussion, I would like to share the following extract from Srila Prabhupad’s Srimad Bhagavatam Purport:

https://www.vedabase.com/en/sb/10/3/27

In this connection, it may be noted that the moon is one of the heavenly planets. From the Vedic literature we understand that one who goes to the moon receives a life with a duration of ten thousand years in which to enjoy the fruits of pious activities. If our so-called scientists are going to the moon, why should they come back here? We must conclude without a doubt that they have never gone to the moon. To go to the moon, one must have the qualification of pious activities. Then one may go there and live. If one has gone to the moon, why should he return to this planet, where life is of a very short duration?  

with regards,

your servant,

Sundar Gopal Das

Please subscribe to daily inspirational emails from His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari (Writings and lectures archived at sda-archives.com), written fresh every day from his travels around the world sharing the highest spiritual knowledge with everyone. Sign up now at www.joincourse.com

The Form of God

God has a form. There are specific descriptions of His form. Meditation of His Lotus Feet, for example, dispels all the thick gloom of the heart.

Sometimes spiritualists imagine that since a material form is a limitation, therefore God cannot possibly have a form.

In some religious tradition, the form of God is not at all described.

Some imagine some form of God according to their own concoctions.

It is not that God does not have a form or that His form is imaginary. But it is that one needs to approach the form of God properly.

God’s form is called “saccidananda vigraha”, or that which is composed of sat (eternality), chit(purely conscious knowledge), and ananda(unmitigated bliss). This form of God is unlimited, not constrained by space or time, neither does God’s form deteriorate like material forms.

In a beautiful section of the Srimad Bhagavatam, Lord Kapila, an incarnation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, describes the process of devotional service.

Here is one beautiful text, an example for you to relish.

सञ्चिन्तयेद्भगवतश्चरणारविन्दं
वज्राङ्कुशध्वजसरोरुहलाञ्छनाढ्यम् ।
उत्तुङ्गरक्तविलसन्नखचक्रवाल-
ज्योत्‍स्‍नाभिराहतमहद्‍धृदयान्धकारम् ॥ २१ ॥

sañcintayed bhagavataś caraṇāravindaṁ
vajrāṅkuśa-dhvaja-saroruha-lāñchanāḍhyam
uttuṅga-rakta-vilasan-nakha-cakravāla-
jyotsnābhir āhata-mahad-dhṛdayāndhakāram

The devotee should first concentrate his mind on the Lord’s lotus feet, which are adorned with the marks of a thunderbolt, a goad, a banner and a lotus. The splendor of their beautiful ruby nails resembles the orb of the moon and dispels the thick gloom of one’s heart.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/3/28/21/
Krishna’s lotus feet

God has feet, which defeat the splendour of a lotus in full bloom. The soles of His lotus feet are adorned with specific marks.

Each and every mark has specific significance. Just the lustre of His beautiful red toenail can be compared to a full moon.

Meditating on the lotus feet of God dispels all gloom.

The sole of Sri Radha(right) Krishna(left)

Why can we not meditate on the lotus feet of the Lord?

I spend most of my time meditating on all sorts of things. I pray that all these useless meditations may be replaced by unbroken meditation on the lotus feet of Sri Radha Krishna.

Eating a Mango in hiding

The great saint Ramanuja once gave his disciples a mango each and ordered them to eat hidden from view… one disciple couldn’t find a place to hide! What about you? Do you think you can hide?

I heard this from my Gurumata, Srimati Vishnupriya Devi Dasi, one of my primary instructing spiritual masters.

Once upon a time, the great saint Ramanuja, who appeared on this planet more than 1000 years ago, called his disciples and gave them each a mango. He instructed them to eat the mango in a secluded place without being seen by anyone, and report back.

The disciples scrambled, some went to caves, some to forests, some locked themselves into a dark room, yet others hid behind buildings and trees. Some went under a blanket.

One of the disciples though, returned to his spiritual master and apologetically offered that he could find no place where he could be unseen.

Ramanuja heartily congratulated this disciple and was very pleased with him.

Indeed, for every single one of our thoughts, words, and deeds, there are witnesses.

Everywhere we go, we are witnessed by the light of the sun or the moon, the light of the stars, the earth, air, space, and other material elements. These material elements are merely manifestations of the controlling deities.

You may find that hard to accept, but just think about this – do you have a cellphone? Wherever you go, the cellphone network “sees” you, tracks you. If you ever connect to any network, anything you do on that network is seen by all the providers of that network, and if they wish to, they can easily reconstruct all your actions online. Every. Single. Action. Every. Single. Byte. It is all recorded in gigantic datacenters the size of mega cities, in servers and disks with blinking lights, whirring fans, and efficient cooling systems. You are not unseen.

What to speak of man-made networks, there is the Original Network of this Material Nature, with all the material elements, the various gross and subtle manifestations and so on… do you think that the Creator and operators of this network cannot see your actions?

Very specifically, the agents of the personality in charge of death and the ultimate taxes, Yamaraja, such as Chitragupta, are tapped into this network and are recording all our actions. Not one single action goes unrecorded.

मुक्तलिङ्गं सदाभासमसति प्रतिपद्यते ।
सतो बन्धुमसच्चक्षु: सर्वानुस्यूतमद्वयम् ॥ ११ ॥

mukta-liṅgaṁ sad-ābhāsam
asati pratipadyate
sato bandhum asac-cakṣuḥ
sarvānusyūtam advayam

A liberated soul realizes the Absolute Personality of Godhead, who is transcendental and who is manifest as a reflection even in the false ego. He is the support of the material cause and He enters into everything. He is absolute, one without a second, and He is the eyes of the illusory energy.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/3/27/11/

Even if we were to be able to escape the material elements somehow, we cannot escape the Super Soul, the Paramatma, who is expanded within our hearts and travels with ourselves, us, the spirit soul, Atma. The very same Paramatma is expanded inside every atom and within the space between atoms.

eko ‘py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ
yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antaḥ
aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham-
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

He is an undifferentiated entity as there is no distinction between potency and the possessor thereof. In His work of creation of millions of worlds, His potency remains inseparable. All the universes exist in Him and He is present in His fullness in every one of the atoms that are scattered throughout the universe, at one and the same time. Such is the primeval Lord whom I adore.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/35/

Like that fortunate disciple of Sri Ramanuja, we need to see…

सर्वभूतस्थमात्मानं सर्वभूतानि चात्मनि ।
ईक्षते योगयुक्तात्मा सर्वत्र समदर्शन: ॥ २९ ॥

sarva-bhūta-stham ātmānaṁ
sarva-bhūtāni cātmani
īkṣate yoga-yuktātmā
sarvatra sama-darśanaḥ

A true yogī observes Me in all beings and also sees every being in Me. Indeed, the self-realized person sees Me, the same Supreme Lord, everywhere.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/6/29/

Everyone can see God. Here. Now. For one who has the eyes to see!

So, you want to see God?

Do you want to see God? Who doesn’t! Do you know you already have? But you want to see Him up close and personal? Read on!

If there’s a God, I want to see Him.

George Harrison

It is a common refrain, everyone wants to see God.

One famous Indian monk went around asking many priests, monks, saints, etc., and his question was “Can you show me God?”. And the story goes that none could, except the person who then became his spiritual preceptor.

When that story got popularized, especially in India, and those connected with India in some way, people would ask any person of faith “Can you show me God?”, and then smirk as the poor soul stumbled for an answer.

Reporter 6: So, Your Divine Grace, have you realized God?

Srila Prabhupada: What do you think? What is your opinion?

Reporter 6: I can’t say.

Srila Prabhupada: Then if I say “Yes,”, what will you understand? If you are not yourself expert, then even if I say “Yes; I am God realized,” how will you take it as truth? If you do not know what God realization is. then how can you ask this question, and how will you be satisfied with the answer?

Reporter 6: Well. what is God realization?

Srila Prabhupada: First make sure you understand this idea.

Now, for instance, if one medical man asks another man, “Are you a medical man’.” and the other man says “Yes,” then the first man will understand by their exchange of technical terms whether the second man is truly a medical man. But unless one is himself a medical man, what is the use of asking another man, “Are you really a medical man?”

So for you it is useless to ask about my having realized God, unless you are prepared to accept my answer. Are you?

Reporter 6: Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: Then it is all right. I am God realized. I am seeing God at every moment.

Conversation with A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Actually, it is very easy to see God.

O son of Kuntī, I am the taste of water, the light of the sun and the moon, the syllable oṁ in the Vedic mantras; I am the sound in ether and ability in man.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/7/8/

Have you tasted water? Have you seen the light of the sun and the moon? Have you heard the syllable “Om”? Have you ever heard any sound? Have you seen anyone with any ability?

If you answered yes to any of the above questions, then you have seen God. Of course, you may not realize that, but you have.

Now, you may say, “Hey Das, you say God is a Person“, so where is that God as a Person?

Ah, now, here comes the crux – what is your qualification to see God?

If you want to meet some famous actor personally, then she should want to meet you. If you want to meet a big businessman, he should want to meet you. If you want to meet a politician, the politician should want to see you. Is this not true?

Doesn’t matter if someone is a lawyer, teacher, scientist, doctor, whatever – you need to be qualified to see them!

The greater the personality, the more qualified someone needs to be!

What is this qualification needed to see God?

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is Śyāmasundara, Kṛṣṇa Himself with inconceivable innumerable attributes, whom the pure devotees see in their heart of hearts with the eye of devotion tinged with the salve of love.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/38/

“eyes tinged with the salve of love”, in other words, you love God purely, that is your qualification. And love means you love God without expecting anything in return. And there’s infinite variety in how you can love God!

Krishna, Govinda, Shyamasundara, Lotus Eyed, Effulgent, Love of Love, Lord of Lords, God of All!

So, would you like to see God? Face-to-face? In person? What are you prepared to do to qualify yourself? I’d love to serve you on your way! Please comment, or contact me!