Tag: expansion

Is Krishna an expansion of Lord Vishnu?

B.shahvir balaporia, 12th November 2013

Hare Krishna!

Pardon me for my dearth of knowledge in putting forth this question.
I just needed to understand whether lord Vishnu is the plenary expansion of Lord Krishna or is it the other way round? I ask this since, as per popular Hindu belief, Lord Krishna is considered to be an avatar/expansion of Lord Vishnu. Hence, Lord Vishnu is considered as Supreme Personality of Godhead as per popular belief.

My apologies again if the context of my question is inappropriate.

regards,
Shahvir

Sudeep Manchanda, 13th November 2013

Hare Krishna,

We have had wonderful discussion on the topic in the past. Sharing a few answers:

By Harish Prabhu:

1) BG 10.21
adityanam aham visnur
jyotisam ravir amsuman
maricir marutam asmi
naksatranam aham sasi

“Of the Adityas I am Visnu, of lights I am the radiant sun, of the Maruts I am Marici, and among the stars I am the moon.”

2) Brahma Samhita 5.48:
yasyaika-nisvasita-kalam athavalambya
jivanti loma-vila-ja jagad-anda-nathah
visnur mahan sa iha yasya kala-viseso
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami

Brahma and other lords of the mundane worlds, appearing from the pores of hair of Maha-Visnu, remain alive as long as the duration of one exhalation of the latter (Maha-Visnu).  I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whose subjective personality Maha-Visnu is the portion of portion.

3) In Srimad Bhagvatam, there is a list of many incarnations of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but Krsna is described as the original Personality of Godhead, from whom many, many incarnations and Personalities of Godhead expand.

SB 1.3.28
ete camsa-kalah pumsah
Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam
Indrari-vyakulam lokam
mrdayanti yuge yuge

“All the lists of the incarnations of Godhead submitted herewith are either plenary expansions or parts of the plenary expansions of the Supreme Godhead, but Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself.”

In many of his purports also, Srila Prabhupada has quoted Visnu or Lord Krsna as same:

(BG 1.14) – Victory is always with persons like the sons of Pandu because Lord Krsna is associated with them. And whenever and wherever the Lord is present, the goddess of fortune is also there because the goddess of fortune never lives alone without her husband. Therefore, victory and fortune were awaiting Arjuna, as indicated by the transcendental sound produced by the conchshell of Visnu, or Lord Krsna.

(BG 2.2) – Persons who are led by the material conception of life do not know that the aim of life is realization of the Absolute Truth, Visnu or Bhagavan (Krsna), and they are captivated by the external features of the material world, and therefore they do not know what liberation is.

(BG 9.13) – The mahatma or great souls does not divert his attention to anything outside Krsna, because he knows perfectly well that Krishna is the original Supreme Person, the cause of all causes. There is no doubt about it. Such a mahatma, or great soul, develops through association with other mahatmas, pure devotees. Pure devotees are not even attracted by Krsna’s other features, such as the four-armed Maha-Vishnu. They are simply attracted by the two-armed form of Krsna. They are not attracted to other features of Krsna, nor are they concerned with any form of a demigod or of a human being. They meditate only upon Krsna in Krsna consciousness.  They are always engaged in the unswerving service of the Lord in Krsna consciousness.”

Even if we observe during the Tulasi aarti we perform every day morning and evening, both Lord Visnu and Krsna names are used.  Moreover it is often observed that even during chanting the first mantra for offering obeisances while bowing down (pancanga pranam) some say Visnu bhakti prade devi and some say Krsna bhaktiprade devi but anyhow later on we only chant Krsna as given below :

vrindaai tulasi devyai priyaai kesavasya ca,
visnubhaktiprade / krsnabhaktiprade devi satyavatyai namo namah
 
namo namah tulasi krsna-preyasi namo namah
radha-krsna-seva pabo ei abilasi
 
ye tomara sarana loy, tara vancha purna hoy
krpa kori koro tare vrndavana-vasi
 
mora ei abhilasa, vilasa kunje dio vasa
nayana heribo sada yugala-rupa-rasi
 
ei nivedana dhara, sakhira anugata koro
seva-adhikara diye koro nija dasi
 
dina krsna-dase koy, ei yena mora hoy
sri-radha-govinda-preme sada yena bhasi

There must be much more verses or quotes too.  But hope the above may help a bit.

By Jaya Krishna Prabhu:

Please refer previous lessons of our course.i remember once our gurudeva explained it like this,
‘vishnu is god in office and krishna is god in home’

By Sanil Prabhu:

The mentioned reply by Srila Gurudeva is pasted below:
—
Answers by Citing the Vedic Version:
Question: Difference Between Krishna and Narayana

Dear Gurudeva,

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I read Lesson C9: Transcending the Dualities of Material Existence, which I received on Sunday 29th July 2012. Well, it is so beautifully explained and full of knowledge.

I have some questions where even devotees are quite confused at times. I have read that Krishna resides in Goloka as a cowherd boy while Narayana resides in Vaikuntha.

My questions:
1. Is Krishna different from Maha-Vishnu? How?
2. Who is Narayana? Is Narayana and Maha-Vishnu same?
3. Is Maha-Vishnu an incarnation or expansion of Krishna?

I understand that they are all one and the same, i.e. the Supreme Personality of Godhead. But, can you please tell how they (Krishna, Narayana, Maha-Vishnu) are different and at the same time the same Supreme Personality of Godhead?

Thanking you.
yours humbly

Kesaven

Answer: God at Home and God at the Office

The answer is very simple.  In His original form the Supreme Lord is two-handed and is called Krishna. In His expanded four-armed forms, of which there are many, He is known as Narayana. All the forms are Krishna Himself. Simply He is acting in different capacities. When God is at home enjoying life with His intimate associates He is known as Krishna. When is at the office engaged in managing cosmic affairs He manifests form arms and is known as Narayana.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari
—
your Servant,
Sudeep Manchanda
B.shahvir balaporia, 13th November 2013

Hare Krishna,

Thank you

Regards,
Shahvir

Shreyas, 19th November 2013

Hare Krsna Prabhujis
Dandavat Pranam.

I hope this helps as well. Following is the conversation which is a part of the lecture Srila Gurudev delivered. I pray that this helps as well:

Q: I am still confused with Visnu and Krsna.

SDA: Visnu and Krsna. Of course we are called Vaisnavas. You know what Vaisnava mean? It means devotees of Visnu. Actually Prabhupada explained this with one gentleman he met him in NY. I have heard the tape conversation, so I am basing my answer what Prabhupada told this Indian gentleman who also had a similar confusion as you. Krsna is the original Visnu. Visnu is the category. There are thousands of millions of Visnus and most of them have four arms also. But Krsna is the original form of Lord Visnu. So Visnu and Krsna are same. But there is one Visnu from whom all the other Visnus have come and that is Krsna. Visnu is the Personality of the Godhead category. In other words Rama is Visnu, Nrsmhadeva is Visnu, Vamana is Visnu, all the avataras they are all Visnu. Sometimes the jiva is empowered to act as an incarnation but in most cases the incarnations of God, they are Visnus and it is mentioned in the Srimad Bhagvatam.

ete camsa-kalah pumsah
krishnas tu bhagavan svayam
(SB 1.3.28)

That all those Bhagawans, all those Visnus, the original one is Krsna. So Krsna is the original form of Lord Visnu. And the other Visnus are the emanations from Krsna. Just like I can have one candle flame burning very nicely I can have many other candles that are not lit. I can take that one original candle flame and I can transfer it to the second candle. The first candle is still just as powerful but now that flame is also in another candle which can be transferred to the third, fourth, the fifth candle, pretty soon  there are  hundreds  of thousands of candles, all burning with equal power but one flame is different than the others and that is the original flame. The others are simply the expansions from that. So, all the different candles they are all Visnu but the one Visnu from which all the other candles  has come, that Visnu is known as Krsna. He is the original Visnu.

your servant
Hare Krsna
B.shahvir balaporia, 19th November 2013

Hare Krishna,

Thank you… very informative!

regards,
Shahvir

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Colour of Lord Krishna and Meaning of Plenary Expansion

Sunil, 20th July 2011

Respected Disciples and Devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances

On reading books of Krishna Consciousness I understand that amazing knowledge is shared in this group and I am thankful to all group members who do so

I would like to ask following two questions:

What is the colour of Lord Krishna? I think that I have read that Lord Krishna’s colour is black as cloud and in photos I have many times seen Lord Krishna is blue in colour, So I am confused

Please also tell what is meaning of plenary expansion

Regards

Sunil

Indira G, 20th July 2011

Please accept my humble obeisances

I dont know whether my answer will help you or not  but i think Shri Krishna , the brahma is symbol of infinity so he appears in color of some time in deep blue or some time in black, or some time in green all  dark shades of all three hues reminds us the unfathomable depth of brahma.

Thanks & Regards

Indira G

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 21th July 2011

Dear Sunil Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you very much for your active involvement and participation. This shows that you are really engaging your intelligence in Prabhupada’s books.

Krishna’s color: Is not material in nature! It is a spiritual color, cannot be seen by anyone with material eyes. In various texts, Krishna is described as “blackish”, or “color of a newly formed rain cloud” or bluish in complexion, the color of the Tamal tree, etc. It is important to note that Krishna’s color is not static, for example, He may take the color that pleases Him most, and this could change – for example, the complexion of Radharani, or any other color that pleases Him. In deity form, it is said that the pure devotee sees Him as He is. So our goal should be to purify ourselves so that we may see Krishna face-to-face and see for ourselves what is really His color – as Lord Brahma says in the Brahma Samhita, and as Srila Gurudeva repeats often “Premanjana Chhurita Bhakti Vilochanena” – we can only see Him with eyes smeared with the ointment of Love, pure Love for Krishna. There is no mundane explanation for Krishna’s color. The impersonalists say that Krishna is a certain color because Krishna represents Brahman, but this is not correct. Krishna is the source of Brahman, the Brahmajyoti or Brahman effulgence emanates from His transcendental body, not the other way around – crude example: the sunshine exists because of the sun, not that the sun exists because of the sunshine.

Plenary expansion: Means expansion that carries the full potency of the original. This means that just because Sri Narayana is an expansion of Krishna, that does not mean that Sri Narayana is not all-powerful or omnipresent. Plenary expansion of Krishna means Vishnu-tattva. All the living entities are also expansions of Krishna, but we are not plenary expansions, we are jiva tattva, it means that we are one in quality with Krishna, that we are full of knowledge and bliss, but in quantity we are infinitesimal…

Dictionary meaning from dictionary.com is given below:

Origin: 1510s, earlier plenar  (late 13c.), from M.L. plenarius  “entire, complete,” from L. plenus  “full,” from PIE *ple-  “to be full”

as an adverb:

full; complete; entire; absolute; unqualified: plenary powers

attended by all qualified members; fully constituted: a plenary session of Congress.

As an adjective: full and complete in every respect

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

SUPARTHA RUDRA, 21th July 2011

Hare Krishna Sunil Prabhuji,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

The explanation given by Mahabhagavat Prabhuji is very nice and complete in sense.

With this may I most humbly add something that I recently read in this group?

It has been written by Jagannath Parbhuji. I’m just putting it below:

In Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Caitanya Caritamrta Madhya Lila Chapter 9,

text 144 he compares the qualities of Vishnu and Krishna.

“Lord Narayana has sixty transcendental qualities. Over and above these,

Krishna has four extraordinary transcendental qualities absent in Lord

Narayana. These four qualities are (1) His wonderful pastimes, which are

compared to an ocean, (2) His association in the circle of the supreme

devotees in conjugal love (the gopés), (3) His playing on the flute, whose

vibration attracts the three worlds, and (4) His extraordinary beauty, which

surpasses the beauty of the three worlds. Lord Krishna’s beauty is unequaled

and unsurpassed.”

From this it is clear that even though Lord Sri Krishna & His unlimited PLENARY EXPANSIONS are at the same plane but their moods (bhava) are different. Srila Prabhupad used to give the example of a Supreme Court Judge in the office (comparable to Lord Narayan) and that same Supreme Court Judge in his home( comparable to Lord Shri Krishna). In the Court room every body has respect with awe & reverence for the Judge. But in home that same Judge is enjoying sweet loving reciprocation with all the family members. That graveness of court room is not their in home. Similarly with Lord Shri Krishna the loving devotional service attitude dipped in either of the above-mentioned FOUR  TRANSCEDENTAL mellows can be sweetly reciprocated. But for us, we should consider ourselves as das anu das–servant of the servant of the Lord Shir Krishna and perform our devotional service following proper regulation prescribed in the scriptures under the expert and bonafide guidance of pure devotee (Spiritual Master) of Lord.

your servant,

supartha rudra

Sunil, 21st July 2011

Respected Devotees and Disciples

Please accept my humble obeisances

When I have read your answers I have felt satisfaction

Maybe this is what is called Relishing the nectar of transcendental knowledge

Regards

Sunil