Tag: gopis

Is Srila Prabhupada insulting Lord Shiva?

Srila Prabhupada, a great teacher, wrote prolifically. Even though his works are lucid and clear, there are many misunderstandings about his writings. One is that he insulted Lord Shiva. Is this true?

Question:

A devotee who has been with ISKCON for 7 years has asked this question… he says he does not agree with Srila Prabhupada’s purport to BG 2.62.

Lord Śiva was deep in meditation, but when Pārvatī agitated him for sense pleasure, he agreed to the proposal, and as a result Kārtikeya was born.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/2/62/

He says that this is not the real story also he doesn’t agree that Lord Shiva can be agitated.

Lord Shiva, Parvati Devi, and their children Kartikeya and Ganesha

Answer:

Thank you for writing to me about this. It is an important thing.

First and foremost we have to understand who is Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada is a pure devotee. As a pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada has no envy in his heart. Srila Prabhupada has no desire to criticize someone unnecessarily. He also has no tendency to try and pull someone down. In fact, Srila Prabhupada is on the Uttama Adhikari platform. As an Uttama Adhikari, he feels that everyone else is serving Krishna except himself. But Srila Prabhupada came down to the Madhyama Adhikari platform. On this platform, he suppressed his ecstatic emotions and took the role of a teacher of Krishna Consciousness. Thus he preached to us poor lost souls in the material world. Srila Prabhupada undertook an austerity for us. Just like Lord Shiva drank up the ocean of poison, Srila Prabhupada tolerated the poisonous nature of this material world. His sacrifice saves us all.

Great personalities accept voluntary suffering for the benefit of others

“tapyante loka taapena”, this is a verse from the Bhagavatam glorifying personalities like Lord Shiva and Srila Prabhupada.

तप्यन्ते लोकतापेन साधव: प्रायशो जना: ।
परमाराधनं तद्धि पुरुषस्याखिलात्मन: ॥ ४४ ॥

tapyante loka-tāpena
sādhavaḥ prāyaśo janāḥ
paramārādhanaṁ tad dhi
puruṣasyākhilātmanaḥ

It is said that great personalities almost always accept voluntary suffering because of the suffering of people in general. This is considered the highest method of worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is present in everyone’s heart.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/8/7/44/

Lord Shiva drinks up an ocean of deadly poison and keeps it suspended in his throat

On the Madhyama Adhikari platform…

A devotee behaves differently with different kinds of personalities. A Madhyama Adhikari is a teacher/preacher… and his mission is to guide souls to spiritual perfection.

  1. To Supreme Personality of Godhead or His plenary expansions, he offers prayers
  2. To the devotees of Krishna, he makes friendship
  3. To the innocent, he preaches Krishna Consciousness
  4. Those envious of Krishna, he avoids

ईश्वरे तदधीनेषु बालिशेषु द्विषत्सु च ।
प्रेममैत्रीकृपोपेक्षा य: करोति स मध्यम: ॥ ४६ ॥

īśvare tad-adhīneṣu
bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu ca
prema-maitrī-kṛpopekṣā
yaḥ karoti sa madhyamaḥ

An intermediate or second-class devotee, called madhyama-adhikārī, offers his love to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is a sincere friend to all the devotees of the Lord, shows mercy to ignorant people who are innocent and disregards those who are envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/11/2/46/

Srila Prabhupada, the great Vaishnava Acharya

Now, let us examine who is Lord Shiva.

Lord Shiva is the Topmost Vaishnava, “vaishnavaanaam yathaa shambhu” as stated in the Bhagavatam.

निम्नगानां यथा गङ्गा देवानामच्युतो यथा ।
वैष्णवानां यथा शम्भु: पुराणानामिदं तथा ॥ १६ ॥

nimna-gānāṁ yathā gaṅgā
devānām acyuto yathā
vaiṣṇavānāṁ yathā śambhuḥ
purāṇānām idam tathā

Just as the Gaṅgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/12/13/16/

In the Brahma Samhita (kshiram yatha dadhi vikaaram) it is stated that Lord Vishnu transforms as Lord Shiva when Lord Vishnu is “in touch” with material energy. This is just like how milk turns to curds when touched with tamarind. In other words, Lord Vishnu and Lord Shiva have no difference of opinion. Krishna desires everyone to be His pure devotee. Similarly, Lord Shiva desires everyone to be Krishna’s pure devotee.

क्षीरं यथा दधि विकारविशेषयोगात्
सञ्जायते न हि ततः पृथगस्ति हेतोः ।
यः शम्भुतामपि तथा समुपैति कार्या-
-द्गोविन्दमादिपुरुषं तमहं भजामि ॥ ४५ ॥

kṣīraṁ yathā dadhi vikāra-viśeṣa-yogāt
sañjāyate na hi tataḥ pṛthag asti hetoḥ
yaḥ śambhutām api tathā samupaiti kāryād
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

Just as milk is transformed into curd by the action of acids, but yet the effect curd is neither same as, nor different from, its cause, viz., milk, so I adore the primeval Lord Govinda of whom the state of Śambhu is a transformation for the performance of the work of destruction.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs/5/45/

In fact, without the mercy of Lord Shiva, no one can become a Vaishnava. Lord Shiva and Parvati Devi are regarded as the father and mother of the material world. As you know, father and mother are the first teachers of every child.

As such, Lord Shiva is beyond all criticism. And as Lord Shiva is a pure devotee, Srila Prabhupada would never criticize Lord Shiva.

Srila Prabhupada is stating the fact.

Lord Kartikeya was born of Shiva and Parvati’s union. Lord Brahma, who is Lord Vishnu’s son is born directly from Himself without the help or assistance of Lakshmi Devi.

In the Valmiki Ramayana, Kartikeya is mentioned as the son of Rudra and Parvati. Agni and Ganga Devi aided in his birth. We accept Valmiki Muni as an utmost authority.

Valmiki, the author of the Original Ramayana

In the Mahabharata, Kartikeya is mentioned as the son of Shiva and Parvati. He emerged as a result of Lord Shiva’s sexual union with Parvati Devi. The details I will not mention here. Ganga Devi cultivated the seed of Lord Shiva. Agni Deva, the demigod in charge of fire, kept it warm.

Now, there is a third story, from the Shiva Purana… Lord Shiva was meditating. Parvati Devi was trying to attract him. Kamadeva tried to help but was burned to ashes by the wrath of Lord Shiva. Lord Shiva, being merciful, then paid attention to Parvati Devi. He married her, and Kartikeya was conceived.

There is additionally a Tamil version of the Skanda Purana in which another story is presented. I read that story in the Amar Chitra Katha comics as a child. Only later I learned where the story came from. The demigods prayed to Lord Shiva and pleased Him. As a result, Lord Shiva manifested 5 additional heads. From each head came one spark. Vayu Deva, the demigod in charge of the wind, carried these sparks and handed them to Agni Deva. Agni Deva then carried the sparks to Ganga Devi, who took them to Saravana lake. There, 6 boys were born. The 6 boys were merged into one by Krittika Devi. This marked the appearance of Kartikeya. He then defeated the demons Surapadma and Simhamukha. These demons surrendered to Kartikeya and became his assistant associates.

Valmiki Ramayana is the Absolute Truth. Mahabharata is also composed by Veda Vyasa. Therefore, we have 2 authoritative references to support Srila Prabhupada’s statement about Lord Shiva in BG 2.62.

Srila Prabhupada is a highly empowered Vaishnava Acharya who has presented Krishna Consciousness in the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Why should anyone accept an objection raised by an uncontrolled mind? Instead, whenever we hear the instruction of the Acharya, we should strive to understand how it is true. It’s not about whether it is true or not, but how it is true. This is called surrender. It may take time. It took me many years to surrender to my Guru Maharaja, but eventually I did. Whenever I had any doubts about Srila Prabhupada’s words, my spiritual masters helped me. They guided me with proper understanding to overcome that doubt.

To “disagree” with an Acharya, is simply immaturity.

Sometimes Acharyas disagree with each other. This is alright if they are of an equal stature. In that case, the rest of us must try to understand how they are right, all of them! Spiritual reality is truly wonderful. It is not one dimensional.

Puranic stories sometimes differ because they describe one kalpa (a day of Brahma) or another. On different days of Lord Brahma, there can be variations in some details.

Lord Shiva’s agitation by Parvati is not an insult to Lord Shiva.

Instead, it glorifies his great devotion to Sri Krishna. By personal example, Lord Shiva is showing how great Lord Krishna is. Lord Krishna remained without agitation even when surrounded by 3 Billion beautiful young gopis. The gopis were ready to do anything for Krishna. Krishna is an eternal Brahmachari, and the proof of this statement is Sri Bhishmadeva who has stated this personally!

Does this help?

Glossary – Personalities & Concepts mentioned in the article:

  • Acharya – A teacher in one of 4 authorized disciplic successions from God, who teaches by personal example
  • Agni Deva – The demigod in charge of fire
  • Bhagavatam – The topmost spiritual scripture, available online at https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/
  • Bhishmadeva – Among the 12 greatest spiritual authorities of our universe, played a pivotal role in the Mahabharata, sometimes referred to as “grandsire” or “grandfather”
  • Brahma – The creator of this universe, son of Lord Vishnu
  • Brahma Samhita – The composition of Lord Brahma is a 100-chapter book. Only Chapter 5 is available. It can be found online at https://vedabase.io/en/library/bs
  • Deva – “Demigod”, also used as an honorific for divine personalities
  • Ganga – The most sacred river in our Universe, a liquid form of God
  • Gopis – The topmost saints, devotees of Krishna
  • Guru – Spiritual Master, also “heavy”
  • Kalpa – A day of Brahma, 4.32 Billion Years long
  • Kama – Literally “lust”, used to refer to the demigod in charge of love
  • Kartikeya – Son of Shiva and Parvati, the military commander of the demigods
  • Krishna – The Supreme Personality of Godhead, source of both spiritual and material realms, the One and Only appearing Himself in different forms and with different names
  • Krittika Devi – a demigoddess
  • Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya – A current unbroken line of disciplic succession from God Himself, included below for reference
  • Madhyama Adhikari – defined above
  • Maharaja – King among men, used to refer to royalty and to renounced or exalted souls
  • Parvati – The consort of Lord Shiva, expanded as the material energy
  • Purana – Authorized history of the Universe, there are 18 such histories, 6 meant for those in the mode of goodness, 6 for those in the mode of passion, and 6 meant for those in the mode of passion
  • Ramayana – The pastimes of Lord Rama, the Personality of Godhead
  • Rudra – A son of Lord Brahma, born of his anger from his forehead
  • Simhamukha & Surapadma – Former demons who accepted the shelter of Kartikeya and became his assistants
  • Shiva – The auspicious one, also referred to as Rudra
  • Shiva Purana – The scripture describing the pastimes of Lord Shiva, meant for the benefit of those situated in the mode of ignorance
  • Sri – Opulence, refers to the Goddess of Fortune, or someone blessed with some extraordinary opulence
  • Uttama Adhikari – defined above
  • Valmiki – The author of the original Ramayana, disciple of Narada
  • Vayu Deva – The demigod in charge of the air and wind
  • Vishnu – An expansion of Krishna
  • Vyasa – The compiler of Vedic literature

The Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya:

1. Kṛṣṇa
2. Brahmā
3. Nārada
4. Vyāsa
5. Madhva
6. Padmanābha
7. Nṛhari
8. Mādhava
9. Akṣobhya
10. Jaya Tīrtha
11. Jñānasindhu
12. Dayānidhi
13. Vidyānidhi
14. Rājendra
15. Jayadharma
16. Puruṣottama
17. Brahmaṇya Tīrtha
18. Vyāsa Tīrtha
19. Lakṣmīpati
20. Mādhavendra Purī
21. Īśvara Purī, (Nityānanda, Advaita)
22. Lord Caitanya
23. Rūpa, (Svarūpa, Sanātana)
24. Raghunātha, Jīva
25. Kṛṣṇadāsa
26. Narottama
27. Viśvanātha
28. (Baladeva), Jagannātha
29. Bhaktivinoda
30. Gaurakiśora
31. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī
32. A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

The Author’s spiritual master, His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari, is a disciple of His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Overcoming Dr. Frog Mentality

Why does anyone try to measure God against themselves?

I heard this example from my spiritual master Sri Sankarshan Das Adhikari several times. Once upon a time, Dr. Frog lived in a well. He was the authority on the well. He knew all its inhabitants, he knew the varying water levels. Dr. Frog was born in the well, and knew that of course, his well was the greatest water body in the world.

One day, a little visitor came to his well, hop hop hop. This visitor had just come from the ocean’s edge. Dr. Frog welcomed his little guest, and they got talking. Dr. Frog told him all about his well. The little one said all that was fine but that he had seen a water body much bigger than the well. Dr. Frog couldn’t believe his ears. He decided to humour his little visitor.

He puffed up his chest a little. “This much bigger?” he asked. The little one said, “No Dr. Frog, much bigger”. Dr. Frog was a master puffer. So he puffed himself up some more. And more. And more. Until his chest burst. And that was the end of Dr. Frog.

Similarly, the Dr. Frogs of this world are trying to measure the glory of God in relation to themselves. When they hear Krishna drank deadly poison as a newborn and sucked out the life of Putana the child-killing demoness, they think, surely this is a fairy tale. When they hear how Krishna lifted Govardhan Hill for 7 days and 7 nights on the little finger of his left hand without a break to protect the citizens of Vrindavan, they think this is surely a myth. When they hear Krishna danced with 3 Billion Gopis and made each of them feel that she was the only one, they say, surely this is a male fantasy. When they hear Krishna married 16,108 wives and each of the wives thought she was the only one, they may think surely Krishna must refer to a tribe of men.

Each materialist, atheist, and pseudo-spiritualist tries to measure God against Himself. This is Maya, that which is not, trying to measure God against one’s own puny little self.

But we little fellows, recovering atheists, are going around telling the little Dr. Frogs of the world, sir, there is a God, and God is very very great, much much greater than you, and they simply puff up their chests. We also say God is very very sweet, not an angry old man, and they think we are fools. We tell them we know what God looks like and they think we are idol worshippers.

But everyone should remember that a frog who croaks too loud attracts his own death in the form of a hungry snake.

The snake of time will devour us all, but those of us in a compact of Love with God, death is simply taking a nap and waking up in our eternal form.

Please read the books of Srila A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. Please strive to understand and follow them. Please chant Hare Krishna, serve the Krishna Consciousness Movement directly or in any of its many branches like Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, or Islam, and continue your progessive journey home.

If I may serve you on your journey please reach out!

Why Krishna likes Raas leela?

Why does Krishna like the Rasa Lila?

Pradnya, 15th September 2011

Hare Krishna,

Why Krishna likes Raass Leela?

Pradnya

Ashutosh pandey, 15th September 2011

Hare Krsna!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Krsna likes Rasa Leela because it gives pleasure to His devotees which is perhaps the source of Krsna’s pleasure Himself.

your servant,
Ashutosh

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 15th September 2011

Hare Krishna Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Gurudeva.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Why does anyone like anything? Because it gives them pleasure. Every thing, for example, the color of clothes they wear on a given day, has an element of personal choice involved.

Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, Raas Leela is Supreme Enjoyment, therefore Krishna likes Raas Leela. But don’t think that any mundane person can enjoy this pleasure… Even though Krishna enjoys this pleasure, still He is always fully renounced, always Brahmachari. There is no mention of breakups and divorces and unwanted pregnancies and abortions and custody rights in the spiritual world. The attraction between boy and girl, man and woman in this material world is a perverted reflection of the pure unadulterated Love between Krishna and Radha, Krishna and the Gopis.

No mundane materialistic person can ever understand Rasa Leela, they can only misunderstand and they do. To understand Rasa Leela as interactions between ordinary boys and girls is the worst mistake one can make.

On a humble note, Srila Vyasadeva did not in fact consider Himself qualified to discuss Rasa Leela very much in detail, and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu only discussed Rasa Leela in the private company of pure devotees like Raya Ramananda.

Sometimes the spiritual masters give us a glimpse into this rare and mystical spiritual experience, for example, Srila Prabhupada has described this in his Krishna book, but it is an undeserved gift, and must be gratefully accepted with great endeavor for purification by trying to chant attentively and hearing the sound of the Mahamantra, following the regulative principles and hearing the vani of the spiritual master and following the spiritual master’s instructions carefully.

your servant,
Mahabhagavat Das

Ikshvaku das, 23rd September 2011

Hare Krishna , Prabhu, to you and all other revered devotees on this group , or anywhere else,
All Glories to Shri Shri Guru and Gauranga!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Please accept my humble obeisances

I am very pleased that I could participate in this group and reading discussions here really makes my day, and want to thank to all participating devotees.

Just 2 minutes ago , I sent one letter to another group of devotees dedicated to studying Bhagavad Gita As It Is
Few hours before , I read the your question thread here and wanted to say something , but was not sure what it was.

And it is this : the essence of Rasa Leela is hearing about Krishna in the company of devotees – just like this group offers. Or any other group of pure devotees offers. These groups are not something material that ends with death. The
friendship established here goes on eternally , ever sweeter , ever increasing Ocean Of the Transcendental Bliss of Sankirtana , As Lord Chaitanya describes in His Sikshastika.

Now to mundane eyes, the Rasa Leela appears like young boy dancing with young girls. But what mundane eyes fail to see is – what is THE BOY discussing with the girls. In the material universe , discussion during the dance is sex. But what
about Krishna and the Gopis discussing while they dance and kiss and hug each other : Sankirtan – Pure devotional Service. The essence of every kiss or hug between them , you also get in the gathering of devotees who engage in pure
hearing of Krishna. As Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes the development of Pure Bhakti from Shraddha to Prema, compared to sugar candy production : 1st it is molasses and in the end after several processes , it’s very concentrated sweetness.

Or the other example , The wings of Garuda. The sound of his wings is vedic hymns. In the same way , every Kiss of Krishna is very concentrated Sankirtan topics and emotions connected with the service which the Pure Devotees
render to Him. And who are the Gopis – The Gopis are the highest pure devotees.

Srila Prabhupada describes in Krishna Book that that night of Rasa Lila was the duration of Lord Brahma’s night – 4320000000 earthly years. But the topics the Gopis discussed with Krishna during this night of dance, the
hugs and the kisses between them were so sweet  , that to them , it felt just like an ordinary night. Does the mondane sex possesses such sweetness? no it ends in just few feeble seconds – Like Srila prabhupada said – Psh, psh, psh.

Srila Prabhupada further explains that there is original taste of Sex – Adirasa , which comes from the Spiritual world.
But in the spiritual world the nasty mundane process of sex is completely absent , although there are hugs and kisses.

Of course how can I disscuss the Rassa lila Dace properly , but but somehow your question evoked in me , a systematic picture , from what I have heard from the Guru Prampara so far. Although information given from them is surely unique , it’s
highly possible that due to my own missunderstanding , I’m not able to present it correctly. That’s why ,  that’s why- this is not directly an attempt to answer question ,
but it’s an attempt to present what I have understood this far , which may be be corrected or further described

your servant
Ikshvaku das
Sofia , Bulgaria

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