Tag: pandavas

Is Krishna’s (God’s) love conditional or unconditional?

A heartfelt exchange between Mahabhagavat Das and a seeker wrestling with the notion of Krishna’s love. Initially perceiving it as conditional, the seeker grapples with doubts stemming from teachings and personal experiences. The response emphasizes that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, while our surrender can be conditional. The discussion highlights the importance of free will and the mercy found in life’s challenges. Ultimately, the seeker finds solace in recognizing Krishna’s unwavering love and encouragement to ask questions without fear.

This article outlines a discussion between Mahabhagavat Das and a sincere seeker. It focuses on the nature of the Supreme Lord Krishna’s love. This discussion is based on an email thread.

The Initial Question and Doubt

Q: Why does it seem that Krishna’s love is conditional, requiring our complete surrender first?

The doubt arose from specific teachings and anecdotes:

  • Conditions for Protection: A discourse by H.H. Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha Swamiji cited the Bhagavad Gita verse (9.22), “ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham.” He explained that Krishna offers protection when two conditions are met:
  • 1) We worship and surrender utterly to Him only, and
    • 2) We do this eternally.
  • The Draupadi Example: In the pastime where Draupadi was being disrobed, Krishna did not immediately rescue her. He only supplied endless cloth when she let go of her own saree and surrendered completely. This suggested to the questioner that Krishna was being conditional.
  • The Argument for Conditional Love: A discussion with another devotee led to the idea that love, even God’s, is conditional. This is similar to how human relationships can end when one partner does something the other dislikes. Srila Prabhupada once mentioned “rascaldom” existing in Krishna. This raised the question of whether “conditional love” could also exist in the Supreme Lord.

The Core Question: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will He not provide for us protection, etc., if we don’t love Him? The Response: Unconditional Love and Conditional Surrender

Q: How is this understanding of conditional love a misunderstanding?

A: The essential truth is that Krishna’s love is not conditional; it is our surrender that is conditional. In real, transcendental love, the lover never stops loving. The notion that a relationship can end is a trait of lust. It is like saying, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine,” and not pure love.

  • The Conditional Factor: It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but rather us not accepting it.
  • The Role of Free Will: Krishna is a true Lover and does not force Himself upon us. If we are trying to help ourselves through other means, why should Krishna interfere? He respects our free will.
  • The Purpose of Experience: Krishna allows us to experience whatever we need to experience. This is also a form of mercy:
    • Parent/Child Analogy: A parent might let a child get slightly burned by a flame. This prevents greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to be hurt, but the momentary experience is for a higher protection.
    • Karmic Reactions as Mercy: Even when facing karmic reactions, we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy through those reactions. This is like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. One is a mercy for law-abiding citizens. The other is a mercy for those who chose not to be.

Resolution and Affirmation

Q: After consideration, what was the realization about Krishna’s love?

A: The questioner realized that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, citing the following observations:

  • Beauty of Creation: Krishna made the world beautiful with colors, flowers, and many beautiful things.
  • Incarnations: He mercifully incarnates so many times to guide us back to Him or to save us.
  • Telling the Secret of Secrets: He bothers to tell the secret of all secrets, demonstrating His care.
  • Steadfast Love: He never stops giving us His love. He continues to do so even when people insult or ridicule Him. Some fools even call Him a “False God”, but Krishna loves them too.

Q: Are such difficult questions considered offensive?

A: No. Questions asked in good faith to understand and deepen one’s Krishna Consciousness are not an offense. This is part of the principle of “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati” (confiding in and inquiring from a spiritual well-wisher). The questioner was encouraged to continue asking questions. One is always welcome to ask questions from one’s teachers. We are also encouraged to ask mentors and peers who are sincere in their approach to Krishna Consciousness.

Original Email Exchange (anonymized)

Email 1

Dear prabhuji,
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

I was listening to a short lecture by HH Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha swamiji. He is the Mathadhipati of Sri Puthige matha and the current paryaya of Udupi Krishna matha. He was explaining about Krishna’s protection.

In Bhagavad Gita, there is the verse ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (9.22).
He said that Krishna will offer protection to us, provided we fulfill two conditions –

  1. We worship Him and Him only. We surrender utterly to Him only and worship only Him. We cannot do this for whichever devata we want, only Krishna
  2. We do this eternally. No just the bad days or the good days, but for all days.

Swamiji also recounted the pastime where Krishna told the Pandavas something meaningful. Krishna said He liked Draupadi the most among all Pandavas. This was in response to being asked who He liked. Draupadi got angry. She asked Krishna why He didn’t immediately rescue her when getting disrobed by Dushasan in the sabha. It happened in front of everyone. She had even called His many names. Krishna told her that while she was doing that, one hand was raised up. The other was clinging onto her saree. But when she realized even she couldn’t save herself, she let go completely. She surrendered utterly. As a result, He saved her by supplying endless cloth.

Later, I pondered over this and realized that Krishna was being conditional. He isn’t going to protect us just like that. He wants our surrender first. I then asked for an explanation from someone, also a devotee of Lord Vishnu, why Krishna was setting such conditions. She said that even love is conditional. If you do something I don’t like, won’t I not like you and stop loving you? It felt a bit unfair, especially in terms of God’s love. But then I remember hearing stories. In those stories, lovers stopped loving each other. They did so because they were doing something the other didn’t like. If that can happen between lovers, why can’t it happen between us and God?

Srila Prabhupada, on 27 February 1972, recounted how Krishna used to act around with Radharani. This behavior superficially made Him the greatest rascal. He then said “Unless rascaldom is in Krishna, how could rascaldom exist in the world?”. Rascaldom can exist in us as it is in Krishna. Therefore, conditional love can exist in Krishna too. It feels like a bitter pill to swallow for me, if it is true, but it is what it is.

My question is: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will he not provide for us things protection etc if we don’t love Him?

Sorry for the long message. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way.

Hari bol
Your servant
A

Response 1

Dear A,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I don’t know how you got into this grave misunderstanding that Krishna’s love is conditional. I don’t know why this other devotee is spreading their misunderstandings to you as well.

You have no understanding of love. In real love, the lover never stops loving. That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prays “mat praana naathas tu sa eva na parah”. But in lust, the relationship can end. It can happen if the relationship is based on “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine”.

What Sugunendra Teertha Swami was saying is 100% correct. What Srila Prabhupada is saying is 100% correct. Your understanding, though, is 100% wrong.

It is not that Krishna’s love is conditional, but that our surrender is conditional. It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but us not accepting Krishna’s mercy. Should Krishna force Himself upon us and intervene when we really don’t want Him to?

Consider this…

  1. We have free will
  2. Krishna does not force Himself upon us as a true Lover
  3. So, if we are trying to help ourselves through other means, then why should Krishna interfere?

Krishna will let us experience whatever it is that we need to experience! Just like a parent, a child might get a little burned by the flame. This is to protect the child from greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to get hurt!

It is the same in modern life. We get vaccinated against certain diseases so we can avoid the actual disease. However, the vaccine itself can cause some side effects. It can even cause a fever sometimes.

Finally, if we are doing something and facing karmic reactions, then through those karmic reactions we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy…

It is just like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. A university is a mercy towards law abiding citizens. A prison is a mercy for those who chose not to be law abiding.

Does this make sense to you?

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
dasadas.com

Response 2


Hare krishna prabhuji!
Thanks for taking the time out to respond to my question. I was in a bad headspace that time and having very negative thoughts on Krishna. Forgive me for any offences caused.
I saw a video related to this and realized krishna does love us. He made this world so beautiful with colours, flowers and many beautiful things. He incarnates mercifully to guide us back to Him or to save us. Even when people insult Him or ridicule, He never stops giving us his love. If He really never loved us, why would this world be beautiful? Why would he bother to incarnate more than 10 times? Why would He bother to tell the secret of all secrets?
Thanks for making me understand!
Hare Krishna

Response 3

Hare Krishna A,

We all go through difficult moments.

Questions asked in good faith are meant to understand and deepen our Krishna Consciousness. In this context, there is no offense. That is one of the meanings of the “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati”.

My prayer to Sri Krishna and you is that you may receive His full shelter…. He is giving all shelter, and that you may fully accept His shelter.

You are welcome to ask questions. I am always welcome to ask questions from my spiritual masters, mentors, and peers.

Why did Krishna help Kunti and the Pandavas? Why do devotees suffer? Why do conditioned souls suffer?

Why did Krishna help Kunti and the Pandavas? Was it because Kunti was Krishna’s aunt and the Pandavas were His cousins? Or is Krishna always impartial?

Also, why do devotees suffer?

And what is the purpose of the suffering of conditioned souls?

Brajanath Das, 14 January 2016

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances!

All glories to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

How to understand the following sentence in SB 1.8.23 purport –

Krishna helped Kunti and Pandavas from a series of dangers because …

“Kuntidevi was a widow, and there was none to help her except

Krishna.” 

Does it mean that the Lord helped mother Kunti and pandavas

out of sympathy (as a relative)?

your servant,

Brajanath Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 15 January 2016

Dear Brajanath Prabhu,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Your question is relevant and you are in good company, because other great personalities (in this particular case, Maharaja Parikshit, the grandson of Arjuna) have asked this question. I am quoting this from the synopsis of the first chapter of the seventh canto of Srimad Bhagavatam or 

“In this chapter, in response to a question by Mahārāja Parīkṣit, Śukadeva Gosvāmī gives his conclusions concerning how the Supreme Personality of Godhead, although the Supersoul, friend and protector of everyone, killed the Daityas, the demons, for the sake of Indra, the King of heaven. In his statements, he totally refutes the arguments of people in general who accuse the Supreme Lord of partiality. Śukadeva Gosvāmī proves that because the body of the conditioned soul is infected by the three qualities of nature, dualities arise such as enmity and friendship, attachment and detachment. For the Supreme Personality of Godhead, however, there are no such dualities. Even eternal time cannot control the activities of the Lord. Eternal time is created by the Lord, and it acts under His control. The Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore, is always transcendental to the influence of the modes of nature, māyā, the Lord’s external energy, which acts in creation and annihilation. Thus all the demons killed by the Supreme Lord attain salvation immediately.”

I request everyone to read at least the translations, if not the purports to that chapter (link above), to get a good understanding of this.

Generally, Krishna is impartial, but to a person who is devoted to Him, He becomes obliged in a certain way, this is not partiality but reciprocation of Love – anyone and everyone can access Krishna’s Love, but some choose not to. Krishna is very fair and discrete, He rewards everyone according to their own situation.

Krishna states His impartiality AND discretion openly:

samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu

na me dveṣyo ’sti na priyaḥ

ye bhajanti tu māṁ bhaktyā

mayi te teṣu cāpy aham

I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him. BG 9.29

The purport of Srila Prabhupada contains some very profound but also elegantly simple points 

Now, in the specific case of Mother Kunti and the Pandavas, they are all exalted devotees to have the Lord appear like an ordinary relative in their family, but it is not that the Lord is bound by the familial relationship but He is attracted by their pure love.

In fact, pure Bhakti, especially the stage of Raganuga Bhakti teaches us how we can follow in the footsteps of such great devotees. But that is for someone who is already practically a pure devotee, no material contaminations – if anything else other than Krishna attracts us more than Krishna, then we are not pure devotees yet, even if the attraction is on a subtle level.

Krishna is sympathetic to every single living entity, therefore He comes to the material world even though the material world is as pleasurable to Him as a dirty toilet bowl is to you. In the toilet bowl, some cockroaches might like to live there, but a decent person does not want to linger there… imagine, the material world is such a dirty filthy place, but the Lord repeatedly comes, He sends His pure representatives like Lord Jesus Christ, Prophet Mohammed, Srila Prabhupada, Srila Gurudeva, He leaves behind His books, the pure devotees leave behind systems, societies, and projects to help us come back to Krishna, but still so many of us make no effort to leverage all these facilities and purify ourselves of material contamination!

Other perspectives are always welcome, of course, they all need to be in harmony with Guru, Sadhu, and Shastra. 🙂

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

Brajanath Das, 19 January 2016

Pranams Mahabhagavat Prabhu for your wonderful answer.  Krishna is Bhavagrahi, yet He let His devotees suffer because “Devotees sufferings are for their glorification and conditioned souls sufferings are for purification”. Could you elaborate it, please?

your servant,

Brajanath Das

Mahabhagavat Das, 19 January 2016

Dear Brajanath Prabhu,

This has also been discussed before on this group but I can’t seem to get access to the link(s).

Because the pure devotee sees everything as Krishna’s mercy, changes of material condition don’t affect them, and this attracts sincere seekers to devotional service because they see how in extreme situations the devotees are not actually undergoing any suffering.

This is described by Srila Prabhupada in his purport to one of Queen Kunti’s prayers:

http://www.vedabase.io/en/sb/1/8/25

And even more elaborately in Srila Prabhupada’s book Teachings of Queen Kunti https://vedabase.io/en/library/tqk/

Teachings of Queen Kunti

Even the highest suffering of being separated from the devotees, or the spiritual master, or Krishna, that is experienced by advanced devotees in “vipralambha seva” or service in separation, and a highest form of ecstasy. “The ecstasy exhibited before the lover and beloved meet, the ecstasy experienced between them after meeting, the state of mind experienced by not meeting, and the state of mind experienced after meeting but fearing separation are called vipralambha. That vipralambha serves as a nourishing element for future meetings.” This is described in Srila Prabhupada’s book Teachings of Lord Chaitanya https://vedabase.io/en/library/tlc/

Teachings of Lord Chaitanya

For materially conditioned souls, yes, the material suffering is a means to vanquish material attachments.

There is a superlative description of this in Srila Prabhupada’s purport to https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/10/14/8/

In that description, Srila Prabhupada explains how Krishna uses this so-called suffering to draw a devotee closer to Himself.

Devotees, please do feel free to add or correct.

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

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Did Arjuna disobey Krishna’s orders in regards to Ashwatthama?

Ashwatthama murdered little children in their sleep. Krishna ordered him killed. But Arjuna spared his life. So did Arjuna disobey Krishna?

Todd, 23 August 2016

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my greetings.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Can you help understand more clearly how it is that Krishna’s word is not followed by Arjuna in regards to Asvatthama’s death?

In 1.7.53-54 Krishna says he must die, correct? Is it that the Lord meant figuratively the whole time? 

Then 1.7.57 is also confusing to me.

Please help me to understand more clearly.

Thank you in advance

Sincerely,

Todd

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 26 August 2016

Dear Sriman Todd,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your question.

Some context is in order, for those who may not be familiar with the full picture.

Ashwatthama is the son of Dronacharya, the military teacher of both the Pandavas and the Kauravas, the two sides of the mighty war of Kurukshetra 5000 years ago, where Srila Prabhupada says 640 million warriors fought and we know hardly anyone went back home.

Dronacharya and his son Ashvatthama fought on the Kauravas side. The Kauravas lost and were killed. Dronacharya was killed also. Ashvatthama survived. He did not like the way his father was killed in battle and as revenge, vowed to wipe out the Pandavas dynasty, and hence he killed the 5 sons of the Pandavas who were all children at the time, and this was done while they were sleeping also.

Now, the conundrum was that Ashvatthama was the son of a Brahmana (priestly and intellectual class of society), or the son of their teacher, and therefore meant to be revered. But he had done this abominable thing of killing defenseless children in their sleep.

In the Srimad Bhagavatam, First Canto (which our Bhagavata Online Academy of 2011 will start reading shortly, but it took 5 years of preparation to get there… all classes of Bhagavata Online Academy will get there, and more details to follow from Hemanga Prabhu…), this incident is described in some detail in the chapter “The son of Drona punished”, which readers can access at https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/1/7/

The verses in question are:

SB 1.7.53-54 — The Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa said: A friend of a brāhmaṇa is not to be killed, but if he is an aggressor he must be killed. All these rulings are in the scriptures, and you should act accordingly. You have to fulfill your promise to your wife, and you must also act to the satisfaction of Bhīmasena and Me.

SB 1.7.55 — Sūta Gosvāmī said: Just then Arjuna could understand the motive of the Lord by His equivocal orders, and thus with his sword he severed both hair and jewel from the head of Aśvatthāmā.

SB 1.7.56 — He [Aśvatthāmā] had already lost his bodily luster due to infanticide, and now, moreover, having lost the jewel from his head, he lost even more strength. Thus he was unbound and driven out of the camp.

SB 1.7.57 — Cutting the hair from his head, depriving him of his wealth and driving him from his residence are the prescribed punishments for the relative of a brāhmaṇa. There is no injunction for killing the body.

Arjuna, being a pure devotee, never fails to follow Krishna’s word, but not in a mood of slavery, but in the mood of clear understanding and harmony with Krishna.

Krishna often uses situations involving his dearest devotees, such as Narada Muni, the Gopis, and Arjuna, to illustrate important points and create situations that may be bewildering to some but the way that those devotees behave sets exemplary precedent for others to follow.

This can be roughly compared to modern courts, which rely on precedence – judges presiding over court cases even today base their judgements from precedents set by other landmark cases elsewhere… in fact, it can be roughly generalized that the practice of law is to know the law, know case law precedence, and apply logical and ethical arguments judiciously using that knowledge. Great lawyers and great judges are those that set precedent in difficult situations.

Similarly great devotees are those who set precedence, for example, Srila Prabhupada’s application of scriptural knowledge is exemplary in the history of the world.

So here was the conundrum:

1. A Kshatriya (or anyone else, for that matter) shall not kill a Brahmana, no matter what, unless of course, a Brahmana is trying to kill a Kshatriya, which Ashvatthama did do, he killed the pandavas’ minor children while they were sleeping

2. Krishna is “go brahmana hitaya cha” – protector of cows and the Brahmanas

3. But Krishna is ordering Arjuna (a Kshatriya) to kill Ashvatthama (a Brahmana), is Krishna, as Supreme Personality of Godhead, inconsistent with His own principles?

4. Bhima, Arjuna’s elder brother is going with a particular understanding of scriptural law, and as he is elder, Arjuna is duty-bound to follow his instruction

4. Draupadi is pleading with Arjuna not to kill Ashvatthama out of compassion for his mother and respect for the individual, even though her own children were the ones Ashvatthama killed, and Arjuna is also duty-bound to fulfill his wife’s lawful and reasonable wish.

5. Arjuna is the devotee who must apply scripture, Krishna’s words, and also carry out his elder brother’s instruction and wife’s desire

In the Bhagavad Gita it is clearly stated that for an honorable person, dishonour is worse than death – BG 2.34 “People will always speak of your infamy, and for a respectable person, dishonor is worse than death.”

So Arjuna fulfilled all requirements by taking away Ashvatthama’s respectable signs, his hair, and the jewel attached to his head from birth.

1. Ashvatthama, being an illustrious warrior, and a member of the Brahmana class, was certainly respectable (until he committed this crime).

2. To be humiliated in this way is worse than death, and yet, he was not killed

So, Ashvatthama was killed and not killed, in fact he lives to this day trying to heal/fill the raw wound open gaping hole in his head caused by the forced removal of the jewel by Arjuna, but no one wants to associate with him and thus he is in a very abominable situation – neither living nor dead.

All of this is confirmed by the verse and Srila Prabhupada’s purport to SB 1.7.55

quote

Sūta Gosvāmī said: Just then Arjuna could understand the motive of the Lord by His equivocal orders, and thus with his sword he severed both hair and jewel from the head of Aśvatthāmā.

Purport: Contradictory orders of different persons are impossible to carry out. Therefore a compromise was selected by Arjuna by his sharp intelligence, and he separated the jewel from the head of Aśvatthāmā. This was as good as cutting off his head, and yet his life was saved for all practical purposes. Here Aśvatthāmā is indicated as twice-born. Certainly he was twice-born, but he fell down from his position, and therefore he was properly punished.

His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada in SB 1.7.55

We are often in a situation where instructions given by different respectable individuals can be apparently contradictory, and we follow the example of expert devotees who follow perfectly while resolving apparent contradictions through their behaviors.

Does this help?

Devotees, please feel free to add your understanding and perspectives to this question as it is a wonderful example of trying to understand Srila Prabhupada’s books extensively and very much an example of how Srila Prabhupada and Srila Gurudeva want us to study Srila Prabhupada’s books.

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

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