Madumitha, 11 November 2014
Hare Krishna!
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
All glories to Guru and Gauranga!
Could you please elaborate on what is meant by ‘reflective chanting’. I understand that the offensive chanting stage is when a neophyte devotee commits offenses while chanting and the offenseless chanting stage is when one does not commit any offenses towards the Holy Name, but I am unable to understand what happens in this intermediate stage. It is also mentioned that it is in the reflective chanting stage that one attains a stage of emancipation. What does this mean? Doesn’t one become liberated at the offenseless chanting stage?
Thanks,
Madumitha
Srivatsa Das, 13 November 2014
Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Gurudeva
In previous yugas, the devotees attained purified goodness mode by training of yoga by a Brahmana or a bona fide spiritual master away from the devotee’s home under brahmacharya asrama. In the present age, it is not possible to have this, but still, we can attain the same purified goodness or Vasudeva sattva stage by the easy process of chanting the mahamantra offencelessly and reading regularly Srimad Bhagavad gita and Srimad Bhagavatam along with other devotees. In both the cases we can see that the seed of bhakti has to be planted into the heart of the devotee by a bonafide spiritual master.
As the chanting continues along with other devotional services, purification starts. The three stages of chanting as I understood are as follows:
1. offensive chanting – In this stage purification starts
2. intermediate stage of chanting – Attains liberation
3. in the offence-less chanting – in this stage one attains Vasudeva sattva stage by real love and devotion towards the Lord. In this stage, the devotee might be present in this material world physically, but he is already in the Goloka Vrindavana serving the Lord at His lotus feet.
Waiting to read others understanding about the question
your servant
Srivatsa Das
Bhakta Sunil, 13 November 2014
Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obeisances
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada
All Glories to the assembled devotees , in this group
Regarding your query about “Thought For the Day” of 10th November 2014 :
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Today’s Thought–Broadcast daily to over 16,000 subscriber in over 100 countries listed at: http://www.backtohome.com/countries
The Offenseless Chanter Lives in God’s Kingdom
uploaded from ISKCON Austin, Texas USA
We read in Srila Prabhupada’s purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 2.2.30:
“There are three stages in chanting the holy name of the Lord. The first stage is the offensive chanting of the holy name, and the second is the reflective stage of chanting the holy name. The third stage is the offenseless chanting of the holy name of the Lord. In the second stage only, the stage of reflection, between the offensive and offenseless stages, one automatically attains the stage of emancipation. And in the offenseless stage, one actually enters into the kingdom of God, although physically he may apparently be within the material world.”
This is truly amazing! Even while apparently being situated in his material body the offenseless chanter of Krishna’s holy names is actually situated in Krishna’s pastimes in the spiritual world. What this means is that the devotee does not have to wait for the demise of his material body to go back to Godhead. He can gradually attain the perfection of going back to Godhead even while he is in his present body simply by becoming an offenseless chanter of the Hare Krishna mahamantra. At this perfectional stage while associating within his heart with Krishna, he will be externally engaged on this planet for bringing about a spiritual revolution and thus the influence of the age of Kali to go into remission.
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
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On researching for your query , I understand that reflective chanting refers to the ‘clearing of offenses leading to liberation’. At this stage of chanting , one gets taste of the Holy Names or ‘namabhasa’
The following references ( courtesy webpage ) may help further clarify your doubts :
The three stages of chanting the holy name:
The simple process of offenselessly chanting and hearing the holy name of the Lord will gradually promote one very soon to the stage of emancipation. There are three stages in chanting the holy name of the Lord. The first stage is the offensive chanting of the holy name, and the second is the reflective stage of chanting the holy name. The third stage is the offenseless chanting of the holy name of the Lord. In the second stage only, the stage of reflection, between the offensive and offenseless stages, one automatically attains the stage of emancipation. And in the offenseless stage, one actually enters into the kingdom of God, although physically he may apparently be within the material world.
There are three stages in chanting the holy name of the Lord−the offensive stage, the stage of lessening offenses, and the pure stage. When a neophyte takes to the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra, he generally commits many offenses. There are ten basic offenses, and if the devotee avoids these, he can glimpse the next stage, which is situated between offensive chanting and pure chanting. When one attains the pure stage, he is immediately liberated. This is called bhava−mahadavagni−nirvapanam. As soon as one is liberated from the blazing fire of material existence, he can relish the taste of transcendental life.
– The Nectar of Instruction Text 7
There are three stages in chanting the holy name of the Lord. In the first stage, one commits ten kinds of offenses while chanting. In the next stage, namabhasa, the offenses have almost stopped, and one is coming to the platform of pure chanting. In the third stage, when one chants the Hare Krsna mantra without offenses, his dormant love for Krsna immediately awakens. This is the perfection.
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The namabhasa stage of chanting elevates one to the position of offenseless chanting:
[Chand Kazi to his orderlies]: “‘The Hindus chant the name Hari because that is the name of their God. But you are Muhammadan meat−eaters. Why do you chant the name of the Hindus’ God?’ The meat−eater replied, ‘Sometimes I joke with the Hindus. Some of them are called Krsnadasa, and some are called Ramadasa. Some of them are called Haridasa. They always chant “Hari, Hari,” and thus I thought they would steal the riches from someone’s house. Since that time, my tongue always vibrates the sound “Hari, Hari.” I have no desire to say it, but still my tongue says it. I do not know what to do.’ Another meat−eater said, ‘Sir, please hear me. Since the day I joked with some Hindus in this way, my tongue chants the Hare Krsna hymn and cannot give it up. I do not know what mystic hymns and herbal potions these Hindus know.'”
Sometimes demoniac nonbelievers, not understanding the potency of the holy name, make fun of the Vaisnavas when the Vaisnavas chant the Hare Krsna maha−mantra. This joking is also beneficial for such persons. Srimad−Bhagavatam, Sixth Canto, Second Chapter, verse 14, indicates that the chanting of the Hare Krsna maha−mantra, even in joking, in the course of ordinary discussion, in indicating something extraneous, or in negligence, is called namabhasa, which is chanting that is almost on the transcendental stage. This namabhasa stage is better than namaparadha. Namabhasa awakens the supreme remembrance of Lord Visnu. When one remembers Lord Visnu, he becomes free from material enjoyment. Thus he gradually comes forward toward the transcendental service of the Lord and becomes eligible to chant the holy name of the Lord in the transcendental position.
– Sri Caitanya caritamrta Adi−lila 17.197−202
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Hope this helps,
Sincerely,
Bhakta Sunil
Guru Vandana devi dasi, 13 November 2014
Hare Krishna!
When the mirror is covered by dust it does not reflect our image clearly. But when it is polished a clear picture is reflected from the impressions on it.Similarly when our minds are covered with material contamination our reflections on holy name are not clear.
Gradually as the transcendental sound of the holy names cleanses the dust of our heart and leads to the reflective stage where one is able to reflect the names or remember the Lord.The stage is when one is free from material anxieties, lamentation, hankering and is elevated to brahma bhutah stage.
your servant
Guru Vandana devi dasi
Sulakshana devi dasi, 14 November 2014
Hare Krishna
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Gurudeva and Smt Gurumataji!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you Guru Vandana mataji for such a nice explanation.
Your humble servant,
Sulakshana devi dasi
Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 22 November 2014
Hare Krishna!
Answer from Srila Gurudeva below. Note the specific meaning of the word “reflective/reflection” in this context coming to us from Srila Prabhupada. I hope this clears all doubts.
Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
———- Forwarded message ———-
From: Sankarshan Das Adhikari
Date: Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:41 AM
Subject: Re: [sda_students:4624] Question regarding thought for the day Nov 10,2014
To: Mahabhagavat Das SDA
From: ISKCON Austin, Texas USA
My Dear Mahabhagavat,
Please accept my blessings.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada has used this term for the clearing stage:
The first stage is the offensive chanting of the holy name, and the second is the reflective stage of chanting the holy name. The third stage is the offenseless chanting of the holy name of the Lord. In the second stage only, the stage of reflection, between the offensive and offenseless stages, one automatically attains the stage of emancipation. And in the offenseless stage, one actually enters into the kingdom of God, although physically he may apparently be within the material world.
Reflection means serious thought or consideration. So in the clearing stage one is deeply thoughtful about his chanting. In other words, he is carefully chanting and trying to avoid all of the offenses.
I hope this meets you in the best of health and in an ecstatic mood.
Your ever well-wisher,
Sankarshan Das Adhikari
kṛṣṇe matir astu (“May you become Krishna conscious”).
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From: Mahabhagavata Das <mahabhag…@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 at 3:55 PM
To: Sankarshan Das Adhikari <s…@backtohome.com>
Subject: Fwd: [sda_students:4624] Question regarding thought for the day Nov 10,2014
Dear Srila Gurudeva,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories unto your divine grace.
The following question was asked on your students’ group. I cannot understand exactly why you used the specific word “reflective” to mention the intermediate “clearing” stage. Instead of speculating, it is better you answer the question, will post it to the entire group.
your servant,
Mahabhagavat Das
Madhumitha, 22 November 2014
Hare Krishna!
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
All glories to Guru and Gauranga!
Thank you very much Prabhus and Matajis for clarifying this for me. I understand it now.
Thanks,
Madumitha
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