Tag: realization

What is the difference between a Brahmavadi and Mayavadi?

What is the difference between a Brahmavaadi and a Mayavadi? Is one better than the other? Should we interact with one but leave the other alone? How to know which is which?

Brajanath Das, 26 December 2015

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances!

All glories to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

While reading three stages of realization I got following  doubts – 

What is the difference between a Brahmavadi and a Mayavadi? What is their destination?

Different stages of Yogis realizations (in Paramatma realization)?

Please help me to understand.

your servant,

Brajanath Das

Amala-Purana Das, 28 December 2015

Hare Krsna Prabhuji,

Please accept my humble obeisances!

All Glories to Srila Gurudeva and Srimati Gurumata!

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!!

Brahmavadis are those who are attracted to the impersonal Brahman but they are not offensive to the Lord’s personal form or consider the Lord’s form as material; it’s just they are either ignorant of the personal conception or they are indifferent towards personal conception i.e. not attracted towards they personal form of the Supreme Lord.

Mayavadis on the other hand are so deeply rooted in their impersonal conception that they blaspheme the transcendental form of Supreme Lord, consider it material and temporary and as a tool to go “something beyond” hence they are condemned.

Srimad Bhagavatam gives us two examples, four kumaras and Srila Sukadeva Goswami who were Brahmavadis and later became devotees.

Four Kumaras already knew about Lord Visnu. They heard about Visnu from Brahmaji and so they wanted to explore and they came to Vaikuntha. Thus, they knew about Lord Visnu, had no offensive attitude towards Visnu; it was just that they were not attracted towards Visnu. But when the fragrance of Tulsi offered on Lord’s lotus feet entered their nostrils, it agitated their impersonal conception and they became devotees.

Similarly, when Srila Sukadeva Goswami heard about Krishna from one of the disciples of Srila Vyasadeva, he became attracted and came to Vyasadeva and learned further from him.

People today in pursue of their spiritual goals can become attracted to Impersonal Brahman. This could be because of culture or natural course of spiritual evolution: one can move from form to formless i.e. from matter to spirit. In this way many people can acquire impersonal conception of the ultimate realty. Now that impersonal conception can:

– translate to offensive mentality towards personal conception

– translate to ignorance of the personal conception

– be indifferent towards personal conception (i.e. not attracted). For example, Four Kumaras

Out of above three first category is Mayavadis and other two are Brahmavadis. Brahmavadis can be elevated to the personal conception and become devotees when they associate with the devotees. So we should also not put every “Impersonal Brahaman seeker” in the category of Mayavadis. We should try to understand their conception of ultimate reality and if they are Mayavadis then we should stay away from them else we should try to inform them about the personal conception of the Absolute truth and bring them in contact with devotees.

Hope it helps

your servant,

Amala-Purana Das

Bhakta Sunil, 29 December 2015

Hare Krishna

Please accept my humble obeisances

All Glories to Vaishnavas

In reply to your question regarding difference between Brahmavadi and Mayavadi, the following conversation should help

——-

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Brahmavādī means those who are aspiring to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence. Māyāvādīs remain fools forever. They have no knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, always impure.

Morning Walk — July 2, 1975, Denver:

Harikeśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what’s the difference between a Brahmavādī and a Māyāvādī?

Prabhupāda: That you already questioned. We answered.

Harikeśa: I did?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) …vādī means those who are aspiring to merge into the impersonal Brahman effulgence.

Harikeśa: And Māyāvādīs, they do not attain that impersonal realization?

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādīs remain fools forever.

Harikeśa: They never leave this material platform.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They have no knowledge. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32), always impure. Otherwise how they are thinking, so ‘ham: “I am same. I am God. I am moving the sun, I am…” Such rascals, they remain always in ignorance. (break) …no sense that “If I am the same, then why I have fallen down in this māyā?” They say, “It is my līlā. I have become dog. So it is my līlā. I have become hog. It is my līlā.” (laughs) This is their philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Māyāvāda. They are fools, mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. Māyāvādī means māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: “Their knowledge has been taken away by māyā.” Fools. Either you call them fool or call them lowest of the mankind or the most sinful, whatever way you can call, they are like that. All good qualifications. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu has warned, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: (CC Madhya 6.169) “If you hear from Māyāvādī, then your spiritual life is finished.” It’s so dangerous.

Harikeśa: The Brahmavādīs have some possibility of advancement?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Harikeśa: What is that thing that enables them to advance?

Prabhupāda: That you will know later on. First of all try to understand this. Don’t try to understand everything in a moment. That is foolishness.

——-

Regarding second question, the following lectures should help :

—–

Lecture on BG 4.24-34 — New York, August 12, 1966: 

So anyway, either the Brahmavādī or Paramātmavādī or the bhakta, they are all tattva-vit. They are all transcendentalists. There is no difference. But as there are three classes in every sphere, so there are three classes in the transcendental field also. So here Bhagavad-gītā, the Lord recommends that jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ (BG 4.34). You have to find out a person who is tattva-darśī, who has realized the Absolute Truth, either in Brahman conception or in Paramātmā conception or in Personality of Godhead conception because we have got different tastes. So the Paramātmā or the Supreme Absolute Truth is also manifested in three phases: Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān. So anyway, either you select the impersonal Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth, either you select the localized supreme soul, Supersoul conception of the Absolute Truth, or you accept the highest, the Supreme Personality of Godhead Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). The Lord says that “This is the last phase of Absolute Truth, what I am, Kṛṣṇa.”

Lecture on BG 4.34 — New York, August 14, 1966: 

And even in that knowledge field also… Of course, transcendental knowledge, as we have discussed already, they are viewed in different, three different angles of vision: the knowledge of Brahmavāda, or impersonal, impersonal Absolute Truth, and the knowledge of Paramātmā, the localized Supersoul, and the knowledge of Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are different stages of development of knowledge. But the first beginning knowledge is that we must understand that “I am not this body. I am spirit soul, and my aim of life should be how to get out of this material entanglement.” That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge.

—-

Sincerely,

Bhakta Sunil

Dra Varni, 04 January 2016

thank you  Hare Krsna!!

Dra Varni

Please subscribe to daily inspirational emails from His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari (Writings and lectures archived at https://ecstaticmedia.com/ ), written fresh every day from his travels around the world sharing the highest spiritual knowledge with everyone. Sign up now at www.joincourse.com

What is Self Realization and how to achieve it?

Tapas Chakraborty, 20 September 2019

Hare Krishna

Q. What is Self Realisation and how to achieve the same?

How Self Realisation is related to absolute perfection in the path of spiritual journey  for transcendental knowledge, hence blessed by infinite peace ecstasy and wisdom?

Request the enlightened group members who have achieved the state to express their knowledge from experience.

Thanks

Tapas

Annu bhatia, 20 September 2019

Self Realization is when we are following Nirguna bhakti or Sattva Shudhi. For this one, we are chanting the holy name and coming in either dasya rupa, vatsalya rupa, sakha rupa, to remember God all the time. We learn about how we are as servants rather than just saying that we are a servant. We accept a shiksha and diksha guru. We accept harinam kirtan. We accept the four principles of regulation. We offering humble obeisances to the deities, to the bona fide gurus through disciplic succession and the assembled devotees. This way we burn our paap (sins) and gain punya (piety) through seva(service).

The infinite peace ecstasy and wisdom we experience is where we are willing to even go to hell for Lord Chaitanya’s seva. The not so great part is where when the Lord’s principles are not followed that we temporarily feel as failures in society. We fail only when we fail in the seva of the Lord. The best ecstasy would be to raise the soul quotient of the fallen souls who still continue to live in darkness. Where we fail is where we use ourselves in the service for self which brings depression rather than for God.

your humble servant.

Annu bhatia

Shridhar Das, 1 October 2019

Hare Krishna,

Please accept my humble obeisance,

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

All Glories to Sri Guru & Sri Gauranga!

The answer is very proper. I would also like to take an opportunity to share.

There are different levels of Self Realization as stated in Srimad Bhagavatam and explained further by Srila Prabhupada.

Some realize the self as the infinite spirit soul (Brahman) beyond the material nature and experience liberated state of existence. Higher than that is realization of all-pervading Paramatma as well and yet higher is to know the fountainhead of creation and all incarnations, the Supreme Person & God, Sri Krishna; Know our relation with Him and engage in His transcendental loving service. This is the ultimatum.

One may personally not be situated on these levels but is to be considered as good, as long as one if faithfully following the process as chalked out by Srila Prabhupada, who certainly is the most perfected spiritual master from the topmost transcendental plane. By following his guidelines under his representatives who are properly following him and reaping the results, we are certainly assured to reach the desired destination. This is just as a sincere student following all the guidelines from a qualified teacher to perform well in a subject. If the student follows well the guidelines of an expert teacher, why won’t he score well in exam? Of course there will be inquiries.

At the stage of ultimate self realization, the ultimate activity is Devotional Service to Lord Krishna & His devotees and by the mercy of Srila Prabhupada, we are already engaged in that activity, with all necessary transcendental knowledge available (elaborated and repeated throughout his books and lectures). The only difference is of material body and environment.

Also, the only difference between present and future destination is of time & struggle of faithful practice.

So let us simply remain engaged in following this simple process under some guidance and render service with a faithful and grateful heart. All realizations will gradually unfold in proportion to the sincerity of our purpose.

your servant

Shridhar das

Bhakta Sunil, 1 October 2019

Hare Krishna Prabhu

Nice question and nice answers

Here are two audio links which will help you greatly

His Grace Sankarshan Das Adhkari, lecture on SB 9.10.54, in Sydney, Australia, on 01 Feb 2017
His Grace Sankarshan Das Adhkari, lecture on BG 2.13, in Sydney, Australia, on 01 Feb 2017

Please also read daily e-mails via ‘Ultimate Self realization’ e-course ( www.joincourse.com )

Sincerely,

Bhakta Sunil

Tapas Chakraborty, 2nd October 2019

Hare Krishna

My glories to Srila Prabhupada

Thanks for the in-depth view on the subject of Self Realisation. Both the answers were extremely relevant for practical following and traversing the path shown by Srila Prabhupada. In truth I had gone over the answers at least 5 times to get to the root of the nectar.

Thanks once again

yours servant

Tapas

Please subscribe to daily inspirational emails from His Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari (Writings and lectures archived at sda-archives.com), written fresh every day from his travels around the world sharing the highest spiritual knowledge with everyone. Sign up now at www.joincourse.com