Tag: sincere

Is Krishna’s (God’s) love conditional or unconditional?

A heartfelt exchange between Mahabhagavat Das and a seeker wrestling with the notion of Krishna’s love. Initially perceiving it as conditional, the seeker grapples with doubts stemming from teachings and personal experiences. The response emphasizes that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, while our surrender can be conditional. The discussion highlights the importance of free will and the mercy found in life’s challenges. Ultimately, the seeker finds solace in recognizing Krishna’s unwavering love and encouragement to ask questions without fear.

This article outlines a discussion between Mahabhagavat Das and a sincere seeker. It focuses on the nature of the Supreme Lord Krishna’s love. This discussion is based on an email thread.

The Initial Question and Doubt

Q: Why does it seem that Krishna’s love is conditional, requiring our complete surrender first?

The doubt arose from specific teachings and anecdotes:

  • Conditions for Protection: A discourse by H.H. Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha Swamiji cited the Bhagavad Gita verse (9.22), “ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham.” He explained that Krishna offers protection when two conditions are met:
  • 1) We worship and surrender utterly to Him only, and
    • 2) We do this eternally.
  • The Draupadi Example: In the pastime where Draupadi was being disrobed, Krishna did not immediately rescue her. He only supplied endless cloth when she let go of her own saree and surrendered completely. This suggested to the questioner that Krishna was being conditional.
  • The Argument for Conditional Love: A discussion with another devotee led to the idea that love, even God’s, is conditional. This is similar to how human relationships can end when one partner does something the other dislikes. Srila Prabhupada once mentioned “rascaldom” existing in Krishna. This raised the question of whether “conditional love” could also exist in the Supreme Lord.

The Core Question: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will He not provide for us protection, etc., if we don’t love Him? The Response: Unconditional Love and Conditional Surrender

Q: How is this understanding of conditional love a misunderstanding?

A: The essential truth is that Krishna’s love is not conditional; it is our surrender that is conditional. In real, transcendental love, the lover never stops loving. The notion that a relationship can end is a trait of lust. It is like saying, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine,” and not pure love.

  • The Conditional Factor: It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but rather us not accepting it.
  • The Role of Free Will: Krishna is a true Lover and does not force Himself upon us. If we are trying to help ourselves through other means, why should Krishna interfere? He respects our free will.
  • The Purpose of Experience: Krishna allows us to experience whatever we need to experience. This is also a form of mercy:
    • Parent/Child Analogy: A parent might let a child get slightly burned by a flame. This prevents greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to be hurt, but the momentary experience is for a higher protection.
    • Karmic Reactions as Mercy: Even when facing karmic reactions, we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy through those reactions. This is like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. One is a mercy for law-abiding citizens. The other is a mercy for those who chose not to be.

Resolution and Affirmation

Q: After consideration, what was the realization about Krishna’s love?

A: The questioner realized that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, citing the following observations:

  • Beauty of Creation: Krishna made the world beautiful with colors, flowers, and many beautiful things.
  • Incarnations: He mercifully incarnates so many times to guide us back to Him or to save us.
  • Telling the Secret of Secrets: He bothers to tell the secret of all secrets, demonstrating His care.
  • Steadfast Love: He never stops giving us His love. He continues to do so even when people insult or ridicule Him. Some fools even call Him a “False God”, but Krishna loves them too.

Q: Are such difficult questions considered offensive?

A: No. Questions asked in good faith to understand and deepen one’s Krishna Consciousness are not an offense. This is part of the principle of “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati” (confiding in and inquiring from a spiritual well-wisher). The questioner was encouraged to continue asking questions. One is always welcome to ask questions from one’s teachers. We are also encouraged to ask mentors and peers who are sincere in their approach to Krishna Consciousness.

Original Email Exchange (anonymized)

Email 1

Dear prabhuji,
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

I was listening to a short lecture by HH Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha swamiji. He is the Mathadhipati of Sri Puthige matha and the current paryaya of Udupi Krishna matha. He was explaining about Krishna’s protection.

In Bhagavad Gita, there is the verse ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (9.22).
He said that Krishna will offer protection to us, provided we fulfill two conditions –

  1. We worship Him and Him only. We surrender utterly to Him only and worship only Him. We cannot do this for whichever devata we want, only Krishna
  2. We do this eternally. No just the bad days or the good days, but for all days.

Swamiji also recounted the pastime where Krishna told the Pandavas something meaningful. Krishna said He liked Draupadi the most among all Pandavas. This was in response to being asked who He liked. Draupadi got angry. She asked Krishna why He didn’t immediately rescue her when getting disrobed by Dushasan in the sabha. It happened in front of everyone. She had even called His many names. Krishna told her that while she was doing that, one hand was raised up. The other was clinging onto her saree. But when she realized even she couldn’t save herself, she let go completely. She surrendered utterly. As a result, He saved her by supplying endless cloth.

Later, I pondered over this and realized that Krishna was being conditional. He isn’t going to protect us just like that. He wants our surrender first. I then asked for an explanation from someone, also a devotee of Lord Vishnu, why Krishna was setting such conditions. She said that even love is conditional. If you do something I don’t like, won’t I not like you and stop loving you? It felt a bit unfair, especially in terms of God’s love. But then I remember hearing stories. In those stories, lovers stopped loving each other. They did so because they were doing something the other didn’t like. If that can happen between lovers, why can’t it happen between us and God?

Srila Prabhupada, on 27 February 1972, recounted how Krishna used to act around with Radharani. This behavior superficially made Him the greatest rascal. He then said “Unless rascaldom is in Krishna, how could rascaldom exist in the world?”. Rascaldom can exist in us as it is in Krishna. Therefore, conditional love can exist in Krishna too. It feels like a bitter pill to swallow for me, if it is true, but it is what it is.

My question is: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will he not provide for us things protection etc if we don’t love Him?

Sorry for the long message. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way.

Hari bol
Your servant
A

Response 1

Dear A,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I don’t know how you got into this grave misunderstanding that Krishna’s love is conditional. I don’t know why this other devotee is spreading their misunderstandings to you as well.

You have no understanding of love. In real love, the lover never stops loving. That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prays “mat praana naathas tu sa eva na parah”. But in lust, the relationship can end. It can happen if the relationship is based on “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine”.

What Sugunendra Teertha Swami was saying is 100% correct. What Srila Prabhupada is saying is 100% correct. Your understanding, though, is 100% wrong.

It is not that Krishna’s love is conditional, but that our surrender is conditional. It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but us not accepting Krishna’s mercy. Should Krishna force Himself upon us and intervene when we really don’t want Him to?

Consider this…

  1. We have free will
  2. Krishna does not force Himself upon us as a true Lover
  3. So, if we are trying to help ourselves through other means, then why should Krishna interfere?

Krishna will let us experience whatever it is that we need to experience! Just like a parent, a child might get a little burned by the flame. This is to protect the child from greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to get hurt!

It is the same in modern life. We get vaccinated against certain diseases so we can avoid the actual disease. However, the vaccine itself can cause some side effects. It can even cause a fever sometimes.

Finally, if we are doing something and facing karmic reactions, then through those karmic reactions we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy…

It is just like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. A university is a mercy towards law abiding citizens. A prison is a mercy for those who chose not to be law abiding.

Does this make sense to you?

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
dasadas.com

Response 2


Hare krishna prabhuji!
Thanks for taking the time out to respond to my question. I was in a bad headspace that time and having very negative thoughts on Krishna. Forgive me for any offences caused.
I saw a video related to this and realized krishna does love us. He made this world so beautiful with colours, flowers and many beautiful things. He incarnates mercifully to guide us back to Him or to save us. Even when people insult Him or ridicule, He never stops giving us his love. If He really never loved us, why would this world be beautiful? Why would he bother to incarnate more than 10 times? Why would He bother to tell the secret of all secrets?
Thanks for making me understand!
Hare Krishna

Response 3

Hare Krishna A,

We all go through difficult moments.

Questions asked in good faith are meant to understand and deepen our Krishna Consciousness. In this context, there is no offense. That is one of the meanings of the “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati”.

My prayer to Sri Krishna and you is that you may receive His full shelter…. He is giving all shelter, and that you may fully accept His shelter.

You are welcome to ask questions. I am always welcome to ask questions from my spiritual masters, mentors, and peers.

Sincere disciple of Srila Prabhupada

Francisco Valencia Berrueta,16th August 2011

HARE KRISHNA

Su Santidad Sankarshan Das Adhikari, in The Ultimate Self Realization Course, “Is It Essential to Have a Living Guru?” (Lesson C24); wrote:

“One does not need to be spiritually disadvantaged by the physical disappearance of a great spiritual master, such as ISKCON Founder-Acharya His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, thinking that now there is no more opportunity for spiritual progress. All one has to do is find a sincere disciple of Srila Prabhupada and fully take shelter of him.”; my question is: How to recognize the sincere disciples of Sri Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada who have the qualifications to be a spiritual master?

I thank in advance for your kind comments.

Servant of the devotees of Krishna

Francisco

Mahabhagavat Das SDA,17th August 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, this is a very important question. Thank you very much Prabhu.

You can study the books of Srila Prabhupada, especially the Nectar of Instruction, which is a translation from the Sanskrit version Bhakti Rasamrta Sindhu by Srila Rupa Goswami, and other instructions by Srila Prabhupada about the qualifications of the spiritual master, then you can assess any person you encounter who presents himself as a spiritual master, who is a personally initiated disciple of Srila Prabhupada (not this bogus so-called initiation where a so-called disciple imposes himself upon Srila Prabhupada after he has entered Samadhi).

A spiritual master is 100% dedicated to spreading Srila Prabhupada’s mission all over this planet, every single moment of their day, this is their only business.

The spiritual master never deviates from the instructions of his own spiritual master, and never asks anyone to deviate also. For example, in South America there are some so-called disciples of Srila Prabhupada who are initiating disciples and saying that chanting 4 rounds of Hare Krishna Mahamantra on the beads is alright. Such so-called spiritual masters may be sincere themselves, but by deviating, they make themselves unqualified to be spiritual masters. Some other spiritual masters, they left ISKCON and started their own organizations, such persons, even though they may be sincere devotees, are again not qualified to be spiritual masters themselves because they disobeyed the order of Srila Prabhupada to not leave ISKCON.

In other words, a spiritual master always remains a sincere disciple of his own spiritual master. But note that not every person who is eligible to bea spiritual master is actually willing to accept the responsibility of taking disciples.

In ISKCON, there is a very careful process that goes beyond emotion and sentiment, there is careful assessment and very very strong checks-and-balances, continual observation of the spiritual masters who are authorized to initiate. This process is accomplished via the ISKCON GBC which is how Srila Prabhupada instructed his disciples to manage ISKCON. In other words, no one who is not authorized by the ISKCON GBC is allowed initiate disciples within ISKCON.

Also, there is a personal component also – if you are really sincere, you can feel in your heart which spiritual master is connecting you to Krishna best. But when you meet such a person, carefully assess without wasting time, and then please do not hesitate. Don’t go by external things like name, fame, etc., as a spiritual master is a pure devotee. Do not lose the opportunity to be connected to the disciplic succession through a bona fide spiritual master.

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

Tirtharaja Dasa, 18th August 2011

Yes another good source of information is the compilation of Srila

Prabhupada’s writings and sayings on this subject matter known as ‘The

Spiritual Master and The Disciple’. Thank you and happy, informed and

blessed reading.

Yls

Tirtharaja Dasa.

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 18th August 2011

Here is a very good article:

http://www.krishna.com/finding-genuine-guru

ys,

MBD

Jagannatha dasa,18th August 2011

Hare Krishna prabhus.

Here are some quotations by Srila Gurudeva on the topic.

Question:  How to Find Guru?

Can you have more than one guru ?

How you can find guru?

How you can get faith and increase faith in guru and God?

Jayprakash

Answer:  You Already Have

While we have only one initiating guru, we may have an unlimited number of instructing gurus.

You do not need to go looking for a guru. You have already found one.

The way to increase your faith in guru and God is to chant the Hare Krishna mantra on a regular daily basis.

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

———-

Question: How to Find an Enlightened Guru?

Dear Swamiji,

I am really in need of your precious advice. For the last ten years I have been looking for an enlightened guru. In this regard I have met many monks, but I have found most of them fake. I want to live a spiritual life and want to know the Absolute Truth, but I have failed to meet a real guru. Kindly help me out and tell me the address of a real enlightened guru. I will very much obliged.

Thank you.

Shaminder

Patiala, India

Answer: You’ve Already Found One

I understand your frustration of encountering so many fake gurus because I was also disappointed in the same way when I was seeking a guru who could bless me with genuine spiritual enlightenment. By Krishna’s grace after four-and-a-half years of difficult struggle, I finally found such a bona fide spiritual master, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada, the Founder-Acharya of ISKCON (the International Society for Krishna Consciousness). He enlightened me with perfect spiritual knowledge and saved me from the vicious cycle of birth and death. If you will read his translation of the Bhagavad-gita known as Bhagavad-gita As It Is, you will find great joy and solace.

Before his left this world in 1977 he carefully trained me and his other disciples how to become gurus so that in his physical absence we could carry on with his mission of enlightening the human society. So there is no need for you to be frustrated anymore in your search for an enlightened spiritual master because you have already found one. You may consult with me and the other devotees of ISKCON regarding how to become free from all material miseries. There are many ISKCON temples throughout India. Is there one in your area?

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

——

Who is the Real Guru?

Poojaneeya Swamiji,

Please accept my humble pranams.

In these days many people claim to be Gurus. And it is very difficult for an ordinary person to judge who is the real Guru

who is self-realized and can take his/her disciple to the highest truth. How one can find his/her Guru and how he/she will be sure that his chosen person is a real Guru who is self-realized?

With humble pranams

Devadas

The Real Guru is Realized in the Vedic Wisdom

My Dear Devadas,

Please accept my blessings.

If someone decides to be a gold merchant they must have some preliminary knowledge of what is gold, otherwise they will be cheated by so many people who will sell them imitation gold. In a similar way if we are going to seek out a guru or spiritual master we must have some preliminary knowledge of what is a guru or we will be cheated by so many imposters. We are currently living in the Kali Yuga, the Age of Quarrel and Cheating, so we must be very careful when seeking out a guru that we do not become cheated.

Guru is not an invented concept. The idea of guru comes from India’s ancient Vedic literature. If we want some preliminary knowledge to enable us to find out the bona fide spiritual master, then we simply must carefully study the Vedic literature to learn the method of discerning who is the bona fide guru. For the example, the following injunction is given in the Srimad Bhagavatam:

tasmad gurum prapadyeta

jijnasuh sreya uttamam

sabde pare ca nisnatam

brahmany upasamasrayam

“Therefore any person who seriously desires real happiness must seek a bona fide spiritual master and take shelter of him by initiation. The qualification of the bona fide guru is that he has realized the conclusions of the scriptures by deliberation and is able to convince others of these conclusions. Such great personalities, who have taken shelter of the Supreme Godhead, leaving aside all material considerations, should be understood to be bona fide spiritual masters.”

SB 11.3.21

Note that the spiritual master must have realized the conclusion of the scriptures. Sadly, nowadays, the so-called gurus present conclusions which go against the authoritative Vedic literatures.

In this way they create societies of the cheater and the cheated. They are the cheater and their disciples are the cheated.

Therefore if you want to find out who is your actual proper guru you must become educated in the Vedic wisdom. In this way you can find out the real guru who is presenting the Vedic wisdom as it is without any distortion. There is a great need in the modern day society for real gurus and real disciples, but due to a lack of Vedic education we have a world full of cheating so-called gurus and their millions and millions of cheated disciples. This is why there is so much chaos in the world.

To try to bring relief to the suffering humanity we are trying to educate the mass of people what is the proper Vedic understanding. So my best advise to you in regards to finding out who is your guru is that first you should become learned in the Vedic wisdom. Then you will have no difficulty at all in discerning who is your guru. I am willing to give you all training and guidance to become expert in the Vedic wisdom. This why I am offering this e-course, the Ultimate Self Realization Course. Kindly take full advantage of it.

Hoping this meets you in good health and in a cheerful mood,

Your eternal well-wisher,

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

—–

There are also so many more quotes along these lines available.

One can search http://www.sda-archives.com in the search bar for keywords or questions.  I got 10 pages of quotes on this topic by searching how to find a guru there.

I hope this is useful.

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa

All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa