Tag: association

Brajanath Das, 26 April 2015
Hare Krishna Dear Devotees!        

Please accept my humble obeisances!

All glories to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Please help me to understand the invisible line of difference between devotion and devotional service. 

your servant,

Brajanath Das

Bhaktin Aruni, 26 Apr 2015

Hare Krishna!          

Pamho, 

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I think maybe devotion is the attitude and devotional service is the act …

aruni

Bhakta Jayakrishna, 27 April 2015

Hare krishna! Thank you Prabhu! 

I too had this doubt when first heard and yet never thought that there may be some serious difference.but i felt that there indeed exist some difference as, if ones devotion is not supported by some service in its way, it is most likely he lose his devotion also, (here i must confess that we neophyte devotees more or less are with such a stage,)and hence, devotion when backed up by service or activities suiting it is the devotional service, but i have no sastric reference and i wish to hear from our senior brothers who can give a better explanation.

your servant

Jayakrishna

Premananda Das, 27 April 2015

Hare Krishna

Devotion means ardent and  selfless affection  and dedication to a person or principle. According to Padma Purana one should always remember Lord Vishnu and never forget Him.This is called dhyana or meditation always remembering Krishna.

Srila Rupa Goswami says bhakti means devotional service to Krishna.Every service has some attractive features which drives the servitor progressively on and on.

A family man works day and night for his wife and children.A philanthropist works for the greater love of family and a nationalist for the cause of country and countrymen.The force that drives them is called a rasa or mellow (relationship) that is very sweet.Bhakti -rasa however does not finish with the end of life.It continues perpetually and therefore is called amrta that which does not die but exists perpetually.

According to Bhagavad Gita a little advancement in the bhakti rasa can save the devotee from greatest danger that is missing the opportunity of human life.The rasas derived from social and  family life or greater family life like altruism,philanthropy,socialism,communism nationalism does not guarantee next birth to be human life.

your servant

Premananda Das

Amogha Lila Das, 27 April 2015

Hare Krishna Prabhu. Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva! All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Devotion is cultivated through devotional service. There are nine processes by which one can cultivate devotion.

Sravanam, Kirtanam, Smaranam, Pada Sevanam, Arcanam, Vandanam, Dasyam, Sakhyam, Atma Nivedanam

Gurudeva often mentions these nine processes in his lectures and they are described by Prahlada Maharaja in the 7th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam (SB 7.5.23-24):       

To hear about Sri Visnu’s transcendental name, His form, His characteristics, His possessions and His pastimes and to hear and chant about His pastimes, to remember them, to serve the lotus feet of the Lord, to respectfully offer service to the Lord, to offer prayers to the Lord, to become His servant, to consider the Lord one’s best friend and to offer Him everything-these nine processes are recognized as pure devotional service.

Following the above nine processes one can gradually advance in devotional service and progress through the nine stages of Bhakti yoga as described in the Caitanya Caritamrta, Madhya-lila, by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as follows:

“In the beginning there must be faith. Then one becomes interested in associating with pure devotees. Thereafter one is initiated by the spiritual master and executes the regulative principles under his orders. Thus one is freed from all unwanted habits and becomes finally fixed in devotional service. Thereafter, one develops taste and attachment. This is the way of sadhana-bhakti, the execution of devotional service according to the regulative principles. Gradually emotions intensify, and finally there is an awakening of love. This is the gradual development of love of Godhead for the devotee interested in Krsna consciousness.”

your humble servant,

Amogha Lila Das

Rantideva Das, 28 April 2015

My dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I trust that you are all well.

Very nice question and answers regarding devotion and devotional service. However, this subject brought to mind another question concerning the same subject matter. Is it possible to perform devotional service without devotion? And what about devotion without devotional service?

I remain your worthless servant,

Rantideva das

Hare Krishna Das, 28 April 2015

Dear Prabhu,

Please accept my humble and respectful obeisances!

All Glories to His Divine Grace Sriman Sankarshan Das Adhikari Gurumaharaj and Srimati Gurumata!

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Devotion in itself includes service. Without service, there is no actual devotion. It is only lip service. But, to stress the importance of service and protect it from sahajiaism, Srila Prabhupada used the term devotional service. I admit, I also have no quotes (reference lines) from Senior Vaisnavas. This is my perspective. Willing to hear from others.

Thanking You,

your servant,

Hare Krishna Das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 30 April 2015

Dear Devotees,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

This discussion was very enlivening for me. Thank you to all who have participated in this discussion. The question is already answered, from reading the emails together.

Since Srila Gurudeva stresses a careful reading of Srila Prabhupada’s books for all of us, I am adding quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s books to solidify our understanding. I have made a few sentences bold, as they jumped out at me, but of course, every word of Srila Prabhupada is of utmost significance…

(from purport to SB 1.2.19)

A living being in his normal constitutional position is fully satisfied in spiritual bliss. This state of existence is called brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) or ātmā-nandī, or the state of self-satisfaction. This self-satisfaction is not like the satisfaction of the inactive fool. The inactive fool is in the state of foolish ignorance, whereas the self-satisfied ātmānandī is transcendental to the material state of existence. This stage of perfection is attained as soon as one is fixed in irrevocable devotional service. Devotional service is not inactivity, but the unalloyed activity of the soul.

The soul’s activity becomes adulterated in contact with matter, and as such the diseased activities are expressed in the form of lust, desire, hankering, inactivity, foolishness and sleep. The effect of devotional service becomes manifest by complete elimination of these effects of passion and ignorance. The devotee is fixed at once in the mode of goodness, and he makes further progress to rise to the position of Vāsudeva, or the state of unmixed sattva, or śuddha-sattva. Only in this śuddha-sattva state can one always see Kṛṣṇa eye to eye by dint of pure affection for the Lord

(from purport to SB 1.10.23)

Jitendriya means one who has full control over the senses. The senses are active parts of the body, and their activities cannot be stopped. The artificial means of the yogic processes to make the senses inactive has proved to be abject failure, even in the case of great yogīs like Viśvāmitra Muni. Viśvāmitra Muni controlled the senses by yogic trance, but when he happened to meet Menakā (a heavenly society woman), he became a victim of sex, and the artificial way of controlling the senses failed. But in the case of a pure devotee, the senses are not at all artificially stopped from doing anything, but they are given different good engagements. When the senses are engaged in more attractive activities, there is no chance of their being attracted by any inferior engagements. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that the senses can be controlled only by better engagements. Devotional service necessitates purifying the senses or engaging them in the activities of devotional service. Devotional service is not inaction. Anything done in the service of the Lord becomes at once purified of its material nature.

(From the Introduction to the Nectar of Devotion)

Pure devotional service should be free from the desire for any material benefit or for sense gratification, as these desires are cultivated through fruitive activities and philosophical speculation. Generally, people are engaged in different activities to get some material profit, while most philosophers are engaged in proposing transcendental realization through volumes of word jugglery and speculation. Pure devotional service must always be free from such fruitive activities and philosophical speculations. One has to learn Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or pure devotional service, from the authorities by spontaneous loving service.

This devotional service is a sort of cultivation. It is not simply inaction for people who like to be inactive or devote their time to silent meditation. There are many different methods for people who want this, but cultivation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different. The particular word used by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī in this connection is anuśīlana, or cultivation by following the predecessor teachers (ācāryas). As soon as we say “cultivation,” we must refer to activity. Without activity, consciousness alone cannot help us.

I hope that these quotes help.

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

Rantideva das, 01 May 2015,

Reposting this question as no reply was received earlier…..

My dear devotees,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I trust that you are all well.

Very nice question and answers regarding devotion and devotional service. However, this subject brought to mind another question concerning the same subject matter. Is it possible to perform devotional service without devotion? And what about devotion without devotional service?

I remain your worthless servant,

Rantideva das

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 01 May 2015

Dear Rantideva Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Please forgive us, we didn’t mean to ignore your question, but somehow missed it.

It is possible to perform devotional service without devotion, in other words, it is called “ajnata sukriti” (unknowingly performed devotional service), this is when, for example, devotees engage others in devotional service without giving them the full details about how, why… this includes for example when devotees serve out Krishna Prasada for the masses, when they put on festivals like Jagannatha Ratha Yatra, or when they go out on Harinam Sankirtan, or go in public wearing Tilaka and devotional attire, etc.

Or, it could be like someone plants a tree and some devotee uses the fruits and flowers from that tree to offer to the Lord, the person who planted the tree gets the benefit of assisting in devotional service.

This also includes the devotees who feel no devotion but go through the motions anyways, for example, chant mechanically, or dance enthusiastically either because of fear or respect for the spiritual master, or to keep up with their vows or commitments. While they don’t make as much advancement as if it were done attentively and devotedly and genuinely, but still, they make some progress, so for example Srila Gurudeva says “mechanical chanting is better than no chanting”, and “offensive chanting is still better than no chanting”, etc. He also says “dance enthusiastically anyway and the ecstasy will come”, when asked about dancing in Kirtan.

Often it is seen that even such service, performed apparently without devotion, fructifies into full-fledged devotional service, I am one such example who did so much devotional service without any devotion and now I feel some attraction to pleasing Guru and Krishna. All glories to the wonderful devotees who engaged me in service throughout my life, my mother, father, cousins, teachers, devotees all over the world, Bhaktimarga Swami, devotees in Toronto, the book distributor who gave a copy of the Bhagavad Gita even though I was undeserving, Srila Gurudeva for giving me his personal attention even though I am undeserving, the list goes on and on, and I don’t even know how to express my gratitude to them all!

Of course, such “service without devotion” devotional service does not count as “pure devotional service”. 🙂

It is however, not possible to have any devotion without performing devotional service, as was hopefully clear from the various answers and Srila Prabhupada’s writings.

I hope this helped, I beg all group members that if I have misunderstood something, or created some misunderstanding, please do kindly help and correct me.

your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

Haldhar Prabhu, 01 May 2015

Hare Krsna Mahabhagavat Prabhuji and Rantideva Prabhuji for one more perfect question and perfect answer.

I understood the question only after the answer 🙂

Hare Krsna !

your servant,

Haldhar Das

Rantideva das, 04 May 2015

My dear Godbrother,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

I was thinking about Jayananda prabhu. How he could engage anyone in Sri Krishna’s service. He could take anyone from the street, say a homeless man or drunkard, and engage him in helping to build  a ratha cart. So this homeless man is engaged in devotional service but has no devotion for the Lord. He’s just working in hopes of receiving a free meal afterwards. Sometimes we even see how a homeless person will come to the temple on Sunday for a free meal. In both cases they are reaping great benefit by performing service for the Lord, or hearing the pastimes of the Lord, or taking Krishna prasadam.

 Since today is Jayananda Prabhu’s disappearance day, May 1, 1977, this topic of devotional service is very appropriate. By the mercy of Srila Gurudeva and Lord Sri Krishna, may we all reach the platform of pure loving service that our dear Jayananda Thakur displayed while here in this material world.

I remain your worthless servant,

Rantideva das

(das is the important part)

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 05 May 2015

Dear Rantideva Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Actually I have met one hippie encouraged by Jayananda Prabhu… this was in Puerto Rico, I was visiting the Hare Krishna temple in Gurabo with my wife for a “retreat”, we once went to downtown San Juan. I had my Tilak on but was dressed in street clothes. An elderly man was doing something with some iron bars, some kind of welding work, and suddenly he saw me and called out “Hare Krishna, are you from the temple in Gurabo”, I was amazed and pleasantly surprised. Then he introduced himself as Lance, went on to describe how he “worked with” one taxi driver we consider a great saint, immediately I knew he was talking about Jayananda Prabhu.This man had met Srila Prabhupada even. I asked him what happened, and he sadly replied that with the drugs, he’d lost most of his intelligence, and even then, he heard only partially, and he does not remember much, but he appreciates everything.

It was the highlight of my day, practically the highlight of that trip, and a reaffirmation of the power of Sankirtan, tell everyone about Krishna, deliver Krishna’s mercy to them, and they will never forget Krishna, and this will help them, if not in this birth, then in the next. Clearly, Lance has performed some devotional service, with or without devotion, but I think the devotion had already started to manifest long ago…

your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

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