flowers – Freedom through Genuine Spiritual Progress

Is Krishna’s (God’s) love conditional or unconditional?

A heartfelt exchange between Mahabhagavat Das and a seeker wrestling with the notion of Krishna’s love. Initially perceiving it as conditional, the seeker grapples with doubts stemming from teachings and personal experiences. The response emphasizes that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, while our surrender can be conditional. The discussion highlights the importance of free will and the mercy found in life’s challenges. Ultimately, the seeker finds solace in recognizing Krishna’s unwavering love and encouragement to ask questions without fear.

This article outlines a discussion between Mahabhagavat Das and a sincere seeker. It focuses on the nature of the Supreme Lord Krishna’s love. This discussion is based on an email thread.

The Initial Question and Doubt

Q: Why does it seem that Krishna’s love is conditional, requiring our complete surrender first?

The doubt arose from specific teachings and anecdotes:

Conditions for Protection: A discourse by H.H. Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha Swamiji cited the Bhagavad Gita verse (9.22), “ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham.” He explained that Krishna offers protection when two conditions are met:
1) We worship and surrender utterly to Him only, and
- 2) We do this eternally.
The Draupadi Example: In the pastime where Draupadi was being disrobed, Krishna did not immediately rescue her. He only supplied endless cloth when she let go of her own saree and surrendered completely. This suggested to the questioner that Krishna was being conditional.
The Argument for Conditional Love: A discussion with another devotee led to the idea that love, even God’s, is conditional. This is similar to how human relationships can end when one partner does something the other dislikes. Srila Prabhupada once mentioned “rascaldom” existing in Krishna. This raised the question of whether “conditional love” could also exist in the Supreme Lord.

The Core Question: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will He not provide for us protection, etc., if we don’t love Him? The Response: Unconditional Love and Conditional Surrender

Q: How is this understanding of conditional love a misunderstanding?

A: The essential truth is that Krishna’s love is not conditional; it is our surrender that is conditional. In real, transcendental love, the lover never stops loving. The notion that a relationship can end is a trait of lust. It is like saying, “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine,” and not pure love.

The Conditional Factor: It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but rather us not accepting it.
The Role of Free Will: Krishna is a true Lover and does not force Himself upon us. If we are trying to help ourselves through other means, why should Krishna interfere? He respects our free will.
The Purpose of Experience: Krishna allows us to experience whatever we need to experience. This is also a form of mercy:
- Parent/Child Analogy: A parent might let a child get slightly burned by a flame. This prevents greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to be hurt, but the momentary experience is for a higher protection.
- Karmic Reactions as Mercy: Even when facing karmic reactions, we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy through those reactions. This is like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. One is a mercy for law-abiding citizens. The other is a mercy for those who chose not to be.

Resolution and Affirmation

Q: After consideration, what was the realization about Krishna’s love?

A: The questioner realized that Krishna’s love is indeed unconditional, citing the following observations:

Beauty of Creation: Krishna made the world beautiful with colors, flowers, and many beautiful things.
Incarnations: He mercifully incarnates so many times to guide us back to Him or to save us.
Telling the Secret of Secrets: He bothers to tell the secret of all secrets, demonstrating His care.
Steadfast Love: He never stops giving us His love. He continues to do so even when people insult or ridicule Him. Some fools even call Him a “False God”, but Krishna loves them too.

Q: Are such difficult questions considered offensive?

A: No. Questions asked in good faith to understand and deepen one’s Krishna Consciousness are not an offense. This is part of the principle of “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati” (confiding in and inquiring from a spiritual well-wisher). The questioner was encouraged to continue asking questions. One is always welcome to ask questions from one’s teachers. We are also encouraged to ask mentors and peers who are sincere in their approach to Krishna Consciousness.

Original Email Exchange (anonymized)

Email 1

Dear prabhuji,
Please accept my humble obeisances
All glories to Srila Prabhupada

I was listening to a short lecture by HH Sri Sri 1008 Sugunendra Theertha swamiji. He is the Mathadhipati of Sri Puthige matha and the current paryaya of Udupi Krishna matha. He was explaining about Krishna’s protection.

In Bhagavad Gita, there is the verse ananyāś cintayanto māṁ ye janāḥ paryupāsate teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham (9.22).
He said that Krishna will offer protection to us, provided we fulfill two conditions –

We worship Him and Him only. We surrender utterly to Him only and worship only Him. We cannot do this for whichever devata we want, only Krishna
We do this eternally. No just the bad days or the good days, but for all days.

Swamiji also recounted the pastime where Krishna told the Pandavas something meaningful. Krishna said He liked Draupadi the most among all Pandavas. This was in response to being asked who He liked. Draupadi got angry. She asked Krishna why He didn’t immediately rescue her when getting disrobed by Dushasan in the sabha. It happened in front of everyone. She had even called His many names. Krishna told her that while she was doing that, one hand was raised up. The other was clinging onto her saree. But when she realized even she couldn’t save herself, she let go completely. She surrendered utterly. As a result, He saved her by supplying endless cloth.

Later, I pondered over this and realized that Krishna was being conditional. He isn’t going to protect us just like that. He wants our surrender first. I then asked for an explanation from someone, also a devotee of Lord Vishnu, why Krishna was setting such conditions. She said that even love is conditional. If you do something I don’t like, won’t I not like you and stop loving you? It felt a bit unfair, especially in terms of God’s love. But then I remember hearing stories. In those stories, lovers stopped loving each other. They did so because they were doing something the other didn’t like. If that can happen between lovers, why can’t it happen between us and God?

Srila Prabhupada, on 27 February 1972, recounted how Krishna used to act around with Radharani. This behavior superficially made Him the greatest rascal. He then said “Unless rascaldom is in Krishna, how could rascaldom exist in the world?”. Rascaldom can exist in us as it is in Krishna. Therefore, conditional love can exist in Krishna too. It feels like a bitter pill to swallow for me, if it is true, but it is what it is.

My question is: Is Krishna’s love conditional? Will he not provide for us things protection etc if we don’t love Him?

Sorry for the long message. Forgive me if I have offended you in any way.

Hari bol
Your servant
A

Response 1

Dear A,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I don’t know how you got into this grave misunderstanding that Krishna’s love is conditional. I don’t know why this other devotee is spreading their misunderstandings to you as well.

You have no understanding of love. In real love, the lover never stops loving. That is what Chaitanya Mahaprabhu prays “mat praana naathas tu sa eva na parah”. But in lust, the relationship can end. It can happen if the relationship is based on “I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine”.

What Sugunendra Teertha Swami was saying is 100% correct. What Srila Prabhupada is saying is 100% correct. Your understanding, though, is 100% wrong.

It is not that Krishna’s love is conditional, but that our surrender is conditional. It is not Krishna withholding His mercy, but us not accepting Krishna’s mercy. Should Krishna force Himself upon us and intervene when we really don’t want Him to?

Consider this…

We have free will
Krishna does not force Himself upon us as a true Lover
So, if we are trying to help ourselves through other means, then why should Krishna interfere?

Krishna will let us experience whatever it is that we need to experience! Just like a parent, a child might get a little burned by the flame. This is to protect the child from greater harm in the future. The parent does not want the child to get hurt!

It is the same in modern life. We get vaccinated against certain diseases so we can avoid the actual disease. However, the vaccine itself can cause some side effects. It can even cause a fever sometimes.

Finally, if we are doing something and facing karmic reactions, then through those karmic reactions we are experiencing Krishna’s mercy…

It is just like a university and a prison. Both are funded by the government. A university is a mercy towards law abiding citizens. A prison is a mercy for those who chose not to be law abiding.

Does this make sense to you?

Sincerely,
Mahabhagavat Das
dasadas.com

Response 2

Hare krishna prabhuji!
Thanks for taking the time out to respond to my question. I was in a bad headspace that time and having very negative thoughts on Krishna. Forgive me for any offences caused.
I saw a video related to this and realized krishna does love us. He made this world so beautiful with colours, flowers and many beautiful things. He incarnates mercifully to guide us back to Him or to save us. Even when people insult Him or ridicule, He never stops giving us his love. If He really never loved us, why would this world be beautiful? Why would he bother to incarnate more than 10 times? Why would He bother to tell the secret of all secrets?
Thanks for making me understand!
Hare Krishna

Response 3

Hare Krishna A,

We all go through difficult moments.

Questions asked in good faith are meant to understand and deepen our Krishna Consciousness. In this context, there is no offense. That is one of the meanings of the “guhyam aakhyaati prchhati”.

My prayer to Sri Krishna and you is that you may receive His full shelter…. He is giving all shelter, and that you may fully accept His shelter.

You are welcome to ask questions. I am always welcome to ask questions from my spiritual masters, mentors, and peers.

What do we call persons who don’t recognize their own suffering?

What do we call someone who does not recognize that they are suffering? What do you call someone who does not recognize the root cause of their suffering? What do you call someone who refuses to accept the cause of their suffering? We call them innocent, just like children, just like animals. And then we see them as spirit souls, and we try to serve them on their spiritual journey. Hare Krishna!

Have you ever seen an animal that is about to be slaughtered? In the modern world, that includes most chickens, goats, sheep, pigs, cows, fish, and buffaloes.

These sheep are being led to slaughter

Animals cannot see their impending doom

I have spent much time in the South Indian City of Hyderabad. This city has a large Muslim population. The Muslims celebrate a festival called Bakri-eid, when many Muslims sacrifice a goat to Allah. It is a common sight to see a Muslim man leading a goat somewhere just before Eid, or even on the day of.

As a child, I was tempted to innocently call out to the goat “run away goat, run away, you are about to be slaughtered”. But no, neither do I have the power to make a goat understand that his life is in danger, nor does the goat have the intelligence to understand his fate.

Even right before being slaughtered, the animal can be seen calmly gobbling up grass here and there, oblivious.

We can extrapolate… think about the animals being transferred in trains or trucks from one place to another. They are all going to be slaughtered, sooner or later.

What about us? Can we see our own sufferings?

As we go about the world, we see so many suffering souls. Some are hungry, some others are unclothed, hot, or cold… yet others are diseased. And everyone is striving, struggling, to solve these problems of life, food, shelter, and clothing, medical treatment, and so on.

It is of course, natural for a human being or an animal to mitigate an immediate danger. For example, once an animal senses that someone is causing it harm, for example the pain of a hook in it’s mouth, or a botched attempt at slaughter, it will flap about, bleat, moo, or make some other frantic sounds, maybe try to fight it’s attacker, and even try to run away, but alas, by then it is usually too late.

Similarly, we see human beings trying to mitigate their sufferings in so many ways.

But do they really recognize the actual cause of their suffering?

Does that woman who is being wooed ardently by that handsome, passionate, suave, smooth-talking man realize that once the man has had his fill of sensual gratification, she will be left behind after an “it’s not you, it’s me conversation.”?

Young man wooing a girl with sweet words and flowers

Does that hard-working employee staying late and working long hours realize that a business change means he is to be on the next list of employees to be laid off due to a “Reduction in Force” or “Headcount cut” or “Re-organization”?

Hardworking employee, doesn't know he is just one step away from being fired

Does that person suffering poverty, pestilence, or war realize that they have created their own situation with their own past actions?

तत्तेऽनुकम्पां सुसमीक्षमाणो
भुञ्जान एवात्मकृतं विपाकम् ।
हृद्वाग्वपुर्भिर्विदधन्नमस्ते
जीवेत यो मुक्तिपदे स दायभाक् ॥ ८ ॥

tat te ’nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo
bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam
hṛd-vāg-vapurbhir vidadhan namas te
jīveta yo mukti-pade sa dāya-bhāk

My dear Lord, one who earnestly waits for You to bestow Your causeless mercy upon him, all the while patiently suffering the reactions of his past misdeeds and offering You respectful obeisances with his heart, words and body, is surely eligible for liberation, for it has become his rightful claim.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/10/14/8

Suffering Child. Who creates our suffering for us?

How can we help everyone understand how to end this cycle of suffering?

Sometimes, not being satisfied with trying to please the senses, an intellectual may, instead, choose to live within the mind, for example in the realm of art, literature, poetry, scientific or mathematical endeavours, maybe even philosophy and speculation about God?

Intellectuals, lost in the world of trying to satisfy the mind

Does the frustrated intellectual, who has given up on gross materialistic gratification and is now involved in trying to satisfy the mind realize that he’s only headed towards insanity?

Neither the mind, nor the senses can ever be satisfied, as much as a fire can never be extinguished by giving it more fuel.

lust cannot be satisfied by any amount of sense enjoyment, just as fire is never extinguished by a constant supply of fuel. In the material world, the center of all activities is sex, and thus this material world is called maithunya-āgāra, or the shackles of sex life. In the ordinary prison house, criminals are kept within bars; similarly, the criminals who are disobedient to the laws of the Lord are shackled by sex life.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/3/39, purport

Blazing fire, no amount of fuel will extinguish it!

We try and we try and we try to help everyone understand that they are not their mind, that they are not this body, not the senses… we try and try to help them understand that actually they are the spirit soul.

Hare Krishna Monk tries to distribute spiritual literature

But unfortunately, most of the souls we come in contact with are not interested. They are content to pursue that next gourmet meal, that next sensual experience, that holiday, that next acquisition, be it a house or a car or some other shiny object. They are content to chase job after job, climbing the ladder to nowhere (more on that another time).

What do we call such a soul, even if in a human body?

Are we cultivating the consciousness of animals. Then what is our destination?

We call such a person an animal in human form. You may be shocked at this. How dare I call a human being an animal? How arrogant and conceited of me! What sort of spiritualist am I, this Das?

यस्यात्मबुद्धि: कुणपे त्रिधातुके
स्वधी: कलत्रादिषु भौम इज्यधी: ।
यत्तीर्थबुद्धि: सलिले न कर्हिचि-
ज्जनेष्वभिज्ञेषु स एव गोखर: ॥ १३ ॥
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ

One who identifies his self as the inert body composed of mucus, bile and air, who assumes his wife and family are permanently his own, who thinks an earthen image or the land of his birth is worshipable, or who sees a place of pilgrimage as merely the water there, but who never identifies himself with, feels kinship with, worships or even visits those who are wise in spiritual truth — such a person is no better than a cow or an ass.

https://vedabase.io/en/library/sb/10/84/13

My dear reader, please understand that a spiritualist is just like an honest doctor. An honest doctor is not afraid to observe carefully and make the right diagnosis. From the doctor’s diagnosis comes a treatment plan, including diet, rest, exercise, and medicine. And from this comes a prognosis, some hope of hope, possibly.

But a doctor who sweeps the symptoms under a rug and pretends everything is just fine, is no doctor. Such a “doctor” is really an enemy in disguise.

And therefore, out of abundant compassion, we call such a human an animal. So that we may develop even more patience and compassion. After all, there is no point being too harsh with an animal or a child. We then try to coax and cajole and convince in this way or in that way.

Physician Heal Thyself

First things first. As a spiritualist, I seek to spot the times when I myself behave as if I were my mind or my body. And I strive to disassociate myself, my self interest from the urges of the body or the mind. If I can be honest with myself, then I will have a deep sense of humility and understanding as to why this is so difficult for me. My conditioning in the material world makes it extremely difficult, and I have been trying for decades!

So, what should I do? First and foremost, look in the mirror and be honest with myself at all times, places, and circumstances.

I cannot be like this kitten here!

Compassion and Equal Vision!

Just as we need to see ourselves and where we are, we need to see everyone with an equal vision, and understand that every spirit soul is precious!

Not all souls can be served in the same way… I cannot discuss philosophy with a dog, nor can I get a pig to appreciate delicious food.

विद्याविनयसम्पन्ने ब्राह्मणे गवि हस्तिनि ।
श‍ुनि चैव श्वपाके च पण्डिता: समदर्शिन: ॥ १८ ॥

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ

The humble sages, by virtue of true knowledge, see with equal vision a learned and gentle brāhmaṇa, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/5/18

For 99% of the population, we just try to engage in the chanting of God’s names. We give them Krishna Prasada, sanctified food, which has been lovingly cooked for and offered to Krishna. We then drip in a little bit of the medicine of the philosophy, you are not this body, you are not this mind, you are a spirit soul.

Hare Krishnas out on Harinam Sankirtan, out to save us all!

And so the effort continues, many, many spiritual warriors trying to save one soul, lifetime after lifetime, in a concerted harmonious effort.

The merciful Srila Prabhupada distributes Krishna Prasada generously to one and all.

My dear soul, please help us with this greatest of all causes, please do your bit for yourself, and then turn to serve others and help them get on and stay on a spiritual journey. Hare Krishna!