Why does the soul fall?

Cigdem, Jan 19 2012

All Glories to Sri Guru!

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Hare Krishna!

Dear Devotees!

According to the mail of Mahabhagavat Das from today, I have a question:

The spirit soul is sat-cit-ananda, eternal, full of knowledge, and full of bliss. Why and how does it fall into the trap of the material platform?

Thank you

Your servant

Cigdem Ongen

 

Nashvin, Jan 25 2012

Hare Krsna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.  All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

His Grace Sriman Sankarshan das Adhikari has answered this question as follows:

“We became envious of Krishna, infected with the desire that we should become God.”

(http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/2005/oct/tftd_102205.html)

Also, here is an article I read on the website of His Holiness Jayadvaita Swami:

Where Do the Fallen Souls Fall From?

Your servant,

Nashvin

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, Jan 26 2012

Hare Krishna!

Nice answer from Bhakta Nashvin.

A couple more answers to this question, which Srila Gurudeva gives are as follows:

“Because the minute living being is qualitatively one with the Lord, who is unlimitedly independent, the minute living being naturally possesses a minute degree of independence. If he misuses this independence, he comes to this material world to try to enjoy separately from the Lord, and thus suffers miserably in the cycle of repeated birth and death. After doing so, if he is indeed fortunate, he comes into contact with the bona fide spiritual master, who enlightens him about his original position in the spiritual world and how to regain it. Then with the merciful blessings of the spiritual master, he returns to his original position in the spiritual world never to make the same mistake again. The living being may misuse his minute independence once, but after having learned his lesson, he will not misuse his independence ever again.”

http://archive.aweber.com/usr_course/SH7B/h/Saturday_5_February_2011_The.htm

And here is another answer:

“It is a fact that one is always free to opt out of the kingdom of God because the devotees there are not slaves. They have full freedom. They may make the mistake once out of curiosity of wondering what it is like on the other side of existence, but it is extremely unlikely that they would make the same mistake twice.

The living being came under the influence of Maya by the misuse of his minute independence. If the potential for misuse were not there, we cannot say that the living being has any independence. And if the jiva has no independence, there is no meaning to his existence. Love can only be expressed by a living being, who possesses independence. Without independence he is nothing more than a robot. It is not possible to have loving relationship with a robot.

This is why Krishna has given us independence. We can choose to love Him or to leave Him. He leaves it up to us to decide which we want. To understand how or when we fell into this material existence is a very difficult subject matter. The easiest program is to fully qualify yourself to regain your original position.

One major difficulty with this philosophy that we were not originally in the spiritual world is that time does not exist in the spiritual world. This means that once you attain it there will be no time that you were ever not there. In the other words, it will be impossible for you to have ever not been there. What this means is that actually we are always there. It’s just that right now we do not realize this. We are currently suffering from amnesia.

Once you regain it, you will then understand everything perfectly. If you are shot with an arrow, what is your first business? To understand where the arrow came from? No. Your first business is to get the arrow out of your chest. Then you can investigate where it came from in full detail. Right now you are pierced by the arrow of conditioned consciousness. Become free from this by total surrender at Lord Krishna’s lotus feet, and then you will understand everything perfectly. In short, go there and you will then fully understand.”

http://www.sda-archives.com/tftd/2007/mar/tftd_030207.htm

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

Hospital in Goloka Vrndavana

Yogesh Purohit, Sep 13 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

When a person gets sick in material world due to material contamination, he is sent to a hospital to get back to his (physical) health.  Similarly, is there any provision to send a person to Spiritual hospital, whenever a person misuses his free-will in spiritual world, before he is sent back to material world, to enjoy independent of God?  Or, is that Hospital this material world itself?

Please correct my understanding.

Thank you very much.

Your aspiring servant,

Yogesh

Jagannatha dasa, Sep 13 2011

Hare Krishna Yogesh,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

In a Town Hall Lecture, from 1972, in Auckland, New Zealand, Srila Prabhupada said:

There are hundreds and thousands of hospital, but where is the hospital for treating the spirit soul? They have no knowledge. They have no knowledge even, what to speak of hospital. This is the hospital. This Krishna consciousness temple is the hospital for the diseased spirit soul. And everyone is diseased. Come to this hospital. We shall take care of you and cure your material disease.

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa

Yogesh Purohit          , Sep 14 2011

Hare Krishna Jagannatha Prabhuji,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your response.

However, my question was little different.  I was asking isn’t there any hospital in Spiritual world (like we have in Material world), where the diseased spiritual being could be sent before it is sent down to material world to enjoy (miserably)?  I have read that every living being originally was in Goloka Vrndavana, but due to misuse of free will, we are sent back in Material world to enjoy independently of God.  My question is that, when that desire originated in Goloka Vrndavana, wasn’t there a provision to sent that soul in the Spiritual Hospital in Goloka Vrndavana itself and get cured there, instead of sending the soul to material world and awarding the material body and associated miseries?

Thank you very much.

Your aspiring servant,

Yogesh

Ashutosh Pandey, Sep 14 2011

Hare Krsna

All glories to Srila Prabhupada:

Actually this material world is the hospital of the spiritual world…Outside this hospital no one is sick (that is in spiritual zone).only those who are become diseased in the spiritual world are sent to this hospital….one more thing if you are assuming a spiritual hospital then you are on the wrong pathway as in spiritual axis no one is disease because the fundamental axiom of spiritual axis is that there is No BIRTH, DISEASE, OLD AGE and DEATH…..so no hospital only bliss and simply happy eternally.

Hope this helps you

YS

Ashutosh

Yogesh Purohit          , Sep 14 2011

Hare Krishna Ashutosh Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

So we are trying to enjoy in the hospital 🙂

Thank you for your kind reply.  This definitely helps.

Your servant

Yogesh

Ashutosh Pandey, Sep 14 2011

Hare Krsna

All glories to Srila Prabhupada

Ha ha ha……Yes now you got the point….. See how foolish it is to even think to enjoy in a hospital where one is diseased and staying with diseased…… but what to say about thinking we all have taken it as a fact…and hence suffer miserably…

YS

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, Sep 14 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhus,

The spiritual world is known as “Vaikuntha”, this is a combination of the words vai + kuntha.

“Vai” means without

“Kuntha” means miseries

Here is a reference by Srila Prabhupada in a lecture…

“So this whole material creation is like that. The creator of this universe, Krsna, He says, duhkhalayam asasvatam: [Bg. 8.15] “This is the place for suffering.” And you are seeking after happiness. Just like in the prison house: it is the place for suffering, and if you want to be comfortable, this is called maya. Maya-sukhaya bharam udvahato vimudhan [SB 7.9.43]. The whole world is running after happiness what is not possible. Therefore they have been described as vimudhan, rascal. We sometimes use this word very frequently, “rascals,” and they become angry. But actually that is the description, “rascals.” All these so-called civilized men, so-called civilized men, they are not men even. They’re all animals. But in the sastra, they have been described as dvi-pada-pasu. They are animals, but they have got two legs. That’s all. That is the difference. Animals, generally, they have four legs, catus-pada, but these animals are two-legged. That is the difference. They’re animals because… The same example: In the desert there is no water, and the animal is running after it. Why he’s called animal? Because he does not understand that “In the desert, how there can be water?””

And he describes how the material world is just 1/4th of the total creation – just as hospitals occupy only a small part of our cities:

“So there is another world. That information is given here. Mayatite vyapi. Vyapi means very extensive. This whole material world is one-fourth of Krsna’s expansion, one-fourth. And that Vaikunthaloka is three-fourths. So therefore it is called vyapi. Vyapi means very extensive. We cannot calculate even this material existence. It is only one-fourth. Now, how it will be possible for us to calculate the vyapi vaikuntha-loka? Vyapi-vaikuntha-loka. Vaikuntha means… Vi means without, and kuntha means anxiety. So Vaikunthaloka means there is no anxiety. There is no anxiety. Here we are full of anxieties in this material… Even big, big businessman, who has got enough money, you’ll find he is in anxiety. He’s always thinking, “How this business will go on? How this, maintain so many men?” So I have seen it that our printer, Dai Nippon, the president, when we, for the temporary, we stopped our business, he was full of anxiety. Yes. Now they have agreed to reduce ten percent more than any printer. Why? He was full of anxiety. (Laughter) This is the fact. So don’t think that very big, big businessman or one who has got enough money, he has no anxiety. Anxiety there should be. This is the place of anxiety, kuntha. Prahlada Maharaja pointed it out that tat sadhu manye ‘sura-varya dehinam sada samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahat [SB 7.5.5]. Here, in this material world, whoever is there… The Brahma is also anxiety, in full of anxiety. Indra… You know. Prthu Maharaja was sacrificing hundred times, and Indra became very much anxious that “If Prthu becomes so great, then he may occupy my seat.” So he wanted to put hindrances so that he may not fulfil the so many yajnas.”

And most importantly, Srila Prabhupada has also given the cure:

“So our Krsna consciousness movement is for that purpose. Increase Krsna consciousness and there will be no more kuntha, no more anxiety. People are trying to be anxiety-less, and that is only possible by this movement. Put always in touch with Krsna. And the method is very simple – Hare Krsna. That’s all. If you keep yourself in touch with Hare Krsna… We have already been known as Hare Krishna people all over the world, Hare Krishna people. So increase this population, Hare Krishna people, and it will be Vaikuntha.”

This is also the purpose of this group.

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

Spiritual Forms

Premal Shah, Sep 12 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu

All glories to Swami Prabhupada

Please accept my humble obeisances

In the spiritual world are there spiritual bodies in all forms like mountains, rivers, lakes, ponds, streams etc.?

Your servant

Premal prabhuji

 

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, Sep 12 2011

Hare Krishna Premal Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

Yes, this is correct. In the spiritual world there is no inert matter. Every “thing” is an individual conscious living entity. The living entities are in the “swaroop” or original form, and take those forms to serve Krishna’s pastimes.

I heard a lecture by Srila Gurudeva, that there is full freedom to do what the devotee desires to serve Krishna… so it is not like someone is locked down, so the question arises, why everyone doesn’t want to be a Gopi? 🙂

For a pure devotee, it is all about Krishna’s pleasure… so some devotee *wants* to remain a cow, some devotee (notably, Lord Brahma and Sri Uddhava pray like this) prays to remain a blade of grass, yet others are streams, lakes, stones, rocks, hills, trees, birds, monkeys… and each one gives Krishna particular “rasa”, taste, flavour that only that particular living entity can give…

So at the moment, every living entity who is in material consciousness, Krishna is being deprived of that taste, that “rasa”, that particular type of enjoyment. So as devotees, we want Krishna to enjoy the full feast, smell the full bouquet, the perfect garland, so we are so eager that each person rediscovers their original identity and give Krishna that missing taste. Of course, Krishna is Atmarama, self-satisfied, still we are trying to please Him.

Your servant,

Mahabhagavat Das

 

Tirtharaja Dasa, Sep 12 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu

Yes everything is spiritual and very aptly described by none other than Lord Brahma himself.

“I worship Govinda, the Primeval Lord, the First Progenitor Who is tending the cows, yielding all desires, in Abodes built with spiritual gems, surrounded by millions of Purpose-trees, always served with great reverence and affection by hundreds of thousands of Laksmis or Gopis.

I worship that transcendental seat, known as Sveta-dvipa where as loving consorts the Laksmis in their unalloyed spiritual essence practice the amorous service of the Supreme Lord Krsna as their only Lover; where every tree is a transcendental purpose-tree; where the soil is the purpose-gem, water is nectar, every word is a song; every gait is a dance, the flute is the favourite attendant, effulgence is full of transcendental bliss and the supreme spiritual entities are all enjoyable and tasty, where numberless milch-cows always emit transcendental oceans of milk; where there is eternal existence of transcendental time, who is ever present and without past or future and hence is not subject to the quality of passing away even for the duration of half a moment. That realm is known as Goloka only to a very few self-realized souls in this world.”

Always think and meditate daily on these words of Lord Brahma as found in the Brahma-samhita.

Be blessed.

Your lowly servant,

Tirtharaja Dasa.

 

On Science and Mercy

Bhakti yogis dance in Hare Krishna Kirtan - experiencing the mercy, not possible by intellect alone
Bhakti yogis dance in Hare Krishna Kirtan – experiencing the mercy, not possible by intellect alone – taken at ISKCON Toronto, July 01, 2012

Jagannatha dasa, 02nd August 2011

Hare Krishna prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

I sent the following question to Srila Gurudeva.  Both the question I sent, and his answer are copied below.  I hope that this inspires you as it does me.

Dear Srila Gurudeva,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

hank you for blessing me with transcendental knowledge and with your example of pure love of God.

It is clear that Krishna consciousness is a science, but is Krishna’s mercy a part of the science, or is it beyond the science?

Please enlighten me with real understanding.

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa

My Dear Jagannatha,

Please accept my blessings.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Science is jnana or perfect knowledge of the Absolute Truth.  Krishna is that Absolute Truth and His loving mercy is even sweeter than knoweldge of Him. The Brijabasis do not know who is Krishna is.  They think that maybe He is a demigod.

But they love Krishna and have unlimited varieties of loving exchanges with Him.  This position of loving relationship with Krishna is higher than scientific knowledge of Him.

I hope this meets you in the best of health and in an ecstatic mood.

Your ever well-wisher,

Sankarshan Das Adhikari

Your servant,

-Jagannatha dasa

Premal, 2nd August 2011

Hare Krishna Prabhu

All glories to Swami Prabhupada

Please accept my humble obeisances

Would the brajvasis not know who is Krishna in spiritual world or only it is in material world due to Yogamaya?

Ys servant

Premal

Rama Sita, 02nd August 2011

All Glories to Srila Prabhupada,

All Glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga

Hare Krsna.

Thanks for that response. That is one reason why I subscribe to Sri Sankarshan Adhikari’s list.

regards

rAma

Sri Sri Radha Kshira Chora Gopinatha - the origin of science and givers of mercy - ISKCON Toronto
Sri Sri Radha Kshira Chora Gopinatha – The Origin of science and Givers of mercy – ISKCON Toronto

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 24th April 2012

Hare Krishna Prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I see that your question from 01 Aug 2011 remained unanswered.

Krishna never appears in the material world 🙂 Wherever He goes, is converted to spiritual world, where there is Krishna, that place is completely spiritualized, that is why when we chant Hare Krishna purely then we are not living in material world. So, even in the material world, the Vrindavan here is called “Gokula Vrindavan”, and the original topmost spiritual planet if “Goloka Vrindavan”. The specialty is that only in Gokula Vrindavan Krishna exhibits His baby and childhood pastimes. In Goloka Vrindavan, this is not present.

You mention “spiritual world” below, note that this consists of an unlimited number of spiritual planets, “Vaikuntha”. In all the planets except Goloka Vrindavan, the devotees know that Vishnu or Narayan or Narasimhadeva, They are Supreme Personality of Godhead, and there is a feeling of awe and reverence in those spiritual planets.

In Goloka Vrindavan, the residents are made to forget Krishna’s Supreme position for the sake of His pastimes, and in fact, even Krishna is not in the consciousness of being the Supreme, He is simply reciprocating with the devotees’ loving moods. The Acharyas describe Krishna as simultaneously both “sarvajna” or all-knowing, and “mugdha” or captivated… Krishna is completely controlled by His pure devotees’ desires always, and that is why Srila Gurudeva says that the relationship with Krishna is beyond science.

I hope this answers the question.

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

jagannath, baladeva,and subhadra, after Their snana yatra abhishek - ritual bathing - ISKCON Toronto July 01 2012
Sri Sri Jagannath, Baladeva,and Subhadra, after Their snana yatra abhishek – ritual bathing – ISKCON Toronto July 01 2012

Bhakta Jared, 24th April 2012

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

HARI BOL !  Wonderful !  AWESOME ! THANKS SO VERY MUCH,

Your Unprofitable Servant,

Jared

(Oneness=in Purpose)= Bhagavad-gita 18:66

Premal, 24th April 2012

Hare Krishna Prabhuji

All glories to Swami Gurudeva

All glories to Swami Prabhupada

I feel very inspired by your answer.

A question is still in my mind if the pure devotee is always wanting to serve Krishna does he not like living the Goloka Vrindavan topmost planet in spiritual world to come as a acharaya in the material world or does he like to come to get back the fallen souls for Krishna pleasure?

Ys servant

Premal

Mahabhagavat Das SDA, 24th April 2012

Dear Premal Prabhu,

Hare Krishna!

Please accept my humble obeisances.

All glories to Srila Gurudeva.

All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Yes, you are right, a pure devotee is never fallen, even if to untrained materially contaminated eyes, it may appear to be so. For example, the pure devotees who appeared in the western countries, they are sent there to make it easier for those in western material consciousness to accept the way they speak and express themselves. They are not in any way inferior to a pure devotee born in India, though actually pure devotee sees himself as very lowly always, even if he receives respect from others.

For example, it appears that Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura was born in an atheistic family and did not pursue devotional service until his thirties, but He is our Acharya, this means that He is, was, and will always be pure. A pure devotee acting as spiritual master is “Krishna Preshthaya”, that means sent by Krishna.

A pure devotee is not just thinking in the mind, a pure devotees every thought, word, and deed are devotional service, they do not do anything for their own satisfaction, everything only for Krishna’s satisfaction – and how to know if Krishna is satisfied – easy, if our spiritual master is satisfied then we should take that as Krishna being satisfied. If our spiritual master is dissatisfied, then we should understand as Krishna being dissatisfied. So our words and actions are very important.

We should be careful not to see anyone else but ourselves as “fallen” – especially never ever cast any shred of doubt on those who are ahead of us in devotional service in any way, birth, position, knowledge, service, or sincerity. Those who see others, especially other devotees as fallen have every risk of falling down themselves, because that consciousness affects us also.

Krishna confirms this Himself in Bhagavad Gita about persons engaged in devotional service – note Krishna is not saying “thinking” he specifically mentions service to Krishna “bhajate maam”:

api cet su-durācāro

bhajate mām ananya-bhāk

sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ

samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

“Even if one commits the most abominable action, if he is engaged in devotional service he is to be considered saintly because he is properly situated in his determination.” BG 9.30

In purport, Srila Prabhupada has explained:

“The word su-durācāraḥ used in this verse is very significant, and we should understand it properly. When a living entity is conditioned, he has two kinds of activities: one is conditional, and the other is constitutional. As for protecting the body or abiding by the rules of society and state, certainly there are different activities, even for the devotees, in connection with the conditional life, and such activities are called conditional. Besides these, the living entity who is fully conscious of his spiritual nature and is engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or the devotional service of the Lord, has activities which are called transcendental. Such activities are performed in his constitutional position, and they are technically called devotional service. Now, in the conditioned state, sometimes devotional service and the conditional service in relation to the body will parallel one another. But then again, sometimes these activities become opposed to one another. As far as possible, a devotee is very cautious so that he does not do anything that could disrupt his wholesome condition. He knows that perfection in his activities depends on his progressive realization of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sometimes, however, it may be seen that a person in Kṛṣṇa consciousness commits some act which may be taken as most abominable socially or politically. But such a temporary falldown does not disqualify him. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is stated that if a person falls down but is wholeheartedly engaged in the transcendental service of the Supreme Lord, the Lord, being situated within his heart, purifies him and excuses him from that abomination. The material contamination is so strong that even a yogī fully engaged in the service of the Lord sometimes becomes ensnared; but Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so strong that such an occasional falldown is at once rectified. Therefore the process of devotional service is always a success. No one should deride a devotee for some accidental falldown from the ideal path, for, as explained in the next verse, such occasional falldowns will be stopped in due course, as soon as a devotee is completely situated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.”

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,

Mahabhagavat Das

No one is excluded from experiencing the mercy - proof of the pudding is in the eating!
No one is excluded from experiencing the mercy – proof of the pudding is in the eating!